Halos Heaven

angelskid2210 - September 10, 2010 reply

The "optimistic" quote above was by Soth.

If you click through, you’ll see what Torii said (“realistic”):

“It was right there in front of us,” Hunter said of an 18-game stretch against Baltimore, Seattle, Oakland and Cleveland that began on Aug. 27. “Everybody knows it was a lost opportunity. We could have gained at least three games, and we didn’t.”

cath619 - September 10, 2010 reply

ahhh gotcha

fooled me. damn Scioscia

It's that sneaky WiHaloFan

trying to turn us against Torii, hah. :)

cath619 - September 10, 2010 reply

More like that stupid WiHaloFan

clipping the wrong quote for the headline.

WiHaloFan - September 10, 2010 reply

meh, it's all good.

Thanks for everything you do, btw.

cath619 - September 10, 2010 reply

Double Thanks!

angelskid2210 - September 10, 2010 reply

Too little too late

sums up Matsui perfectly. The only trouble is, who else will be available who’s a much better option? I only see a few FA’s.

If Matsui leaves and Abroo DH’s, we’ll need to add some more power somewhere else. If we don’t sign Crawford, what other LFers may be available? Preferably a power hitter. Jayson Werth is mentioned a lot. High K rate, but high OBP and power. Defensively, he’s actually an upgrade over Abroo.

Or the other way around, if we have to suffer through another season of Abroo in LF, who’s a bigger power hitting than Matsui out there that may be willing to DH? Konerko and Dunn have high K’s, but high OBP with power. Konerko’s proven he’s still got plenty left in the tank. Other than them, as much as it pains me, I don’t see too many other FA’s I’d choose over Matsui.

No on Werth

Beltre I could see. We could actually use a power threat and gold glover at 3rd base.

There is also the possibility that Rivera has a better year in line with his career norms next season. We’re not gonna get anything worth trading for in exchange for him this winter and he’d probably be happy with any time he could get. Even if he winds up starting the year as a pinch hitter, he’s sucking down less cash than we’ve paid for some relievers and he’s a decent option if Torii or someone goes down. You can make the same argument for Matsui, but Rivera is already on the payroll for 2011.

Why "no" on Werth?

Just because of the money he’d command? There’s no question he’d help our offense, and wouldn’t hurt the defense any more than Abreu. Still, I think I’d rather sign Konerko or Dunn if not Crawford. I guess the bright side is that the Angels have a good shot at signing at least 1 hitter who stands to be an upgrade since we have some money to work with.

As I've said before, he's not "Werth" the money

He is Juan Rivera+ at 2-3 times the price. This is the same reason I didn’t support signing Bay and am still glad we didn’t.

I almost did the

“isn’t Werth the money” line, but couldn’t force myself to be that cheesy. congrats on doing something I couldn’t do myself. you never fail me

I like cheese and so does the internet

I like consuming cheese, not manufacturing it

too smelly

Downing Rules - September 10, 2010 reply

I like cutting it.

Except when there is, in fact, no cheese at all in the shop.

I'm not saying Werth is my favorite choice

I’d rather sign Konerko or Dunn if not Crawford. I just wanted you to explain yourself.

I agree with the "no on Werth"

he is going to want money close to what Crawford will want/get, and he isn’t worth that. he is getting older, has been playing in the NL (compared to CC being successful in the AL East), and some of his numbers have gone down since last season. his 2B and slugging % are up, but his HR are way down from last year (20 compared to 36), as well as his steals. his OBP is great this season, but I wonder how great his numbers would be would be if he wasn’t hitting behind Ryan Howard and playing in the NL (not to mention that ballpark). Also CC’s defense is MUCH better.

if we are going to give over $10 million a year to an OF, his name better be Carl Crawford, who is 2 years younger and plays a more Angels-style baseball (speed), which has been painfully lacking this year.

There are plenty of DH's with more power than Matsui

Jim Thome
Adam Dunn
Paul Konerko
David Ortiz
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Russ Branyan
Lance Berkman

Problem is, we sign one of these guys and we’re stuck with Abreu in the field again. Obviously we’d be in much better shape without that contract.

RallyMonkey5 - September 10, 2010 reply

I wasn't counting guys with options on their contracts.

So that includes Ortiz, Berkman, and Guerrero at least. You know there is no way in hell we’re taking Man Ram. I don’t know about Branyan’s or Thome’s contracts, and I already discussed Konerko and Dunn.

As far as being stuck with Abreu in LF, our OF hasn’t been nearly as bad a liability since Bourjos took over CF. I could cope with one more season as is. Upgrading the offense is more important.

gitchogritchoffmypetis - September 10, 2010 reply

Good point

Torii covers more ground than the average RF and Bourjos cancover the gap himself. There will still be plays where Abreu’s range hurts us, but at least it’s not every flyball dropping in anymore.

Living with Abreu in left and getting a guy like Dunn will be a lot cheaper than getting Crawford. If we go that route, we have to make sure we get a better hitter than Matsui. Not that Matsui is terrible, but simply that our offense with Abreu-Bourjos-Hunter-Matsui right now does not score enough runs.

I’d be happy going cheap here – get Branyan’s power, and combine it with Adrian Beltre at 3rd. That offense might score enough runs.

RallyMonkey5 - September 10, 2010 reply

I agree with living with Abroo for a year.

But only if the trade off is a beast of a DH. I really like Konerko, I think he’d fit in well here, he was on the verge of playing here last contract and was happy about the idea, and than man will add a ton of offense. He’ll protect Kowbell a whole lot more than Hunter or Naps.

That Branyan/Beltre idea makes Beltre a little more palatable. Upgrades our defense, and adds two hitters to the line up that stress the pitcher. That’s what I’d like to see, there are too many hitters in our line up that even a sub par pitcher can relax on as long as he throws low and outside…. knowing mistakes won’t get pounded. With a line up that includes Abroo, Kowbell, Hunter, Beltre, Nipples, Branyan…. and Pete/Akbar’s speed. There’ll be a lot less breathing room for opposing pitchers.

I've been thinking a lot about Abreu recently

Looking at his season, his power numbers and walk rates are all right around what he’s always done. The only difference between this year and the rest of his career is he hasn’t hit nearly as many singles, bringing down his whole slash line.

Now, his line drive rate is also at a career low, which obviously is not a good sign, but maybe the old man is just tired? Wouldn’t playing at least half his games at DH theoretically keep him fresher and hopefully more consistent next season?

We won’t get fair value in a trade and he keeps getting worse in the field. Let him have a year when he can simply worry about hitting and base running and I think he can be a very nice DH/lead off man for us. I realize this could also just be the beginning of his overall decline phase and he’ll be even worse next season, but given his salary and a lack of other options available, isn’t it worth it to try?

I have no doubt his AB's as DH will increase next year.

The only question is by how much? If we keep Napoli at a position, that’s more for Abreu at DH. But if we sign another slugger like Dunn or Konerko, that’s putting him back in the field a lot.

No, Abreu needs to be platooned.

Or his option for 2012 will vest and we’ll be stuck with him for another year.

snowhor - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

Jason Werth

Look, Werth may be werthlessly not werth his werth, however, if you really give it a werthy thought it might be werth looking into werth as he might not as werthless as previously thought.

PhiSlamma - September 10, 2010 reply

Problem with Werth

He’ll be 32. In other words, he’ll be as old in year one of a deal as Crawford will be in year 5.

RallyMonkey5 - September 10, 2010 reply

I just wanted to make werth puns based off his name

I wouldnt touch him with any type of contract.

PhiSlamma - September 10, 2010 reply

One little difference

Werth won’t get a 5 year deal. Again, I’m not saying Werth is my favorite choice, I’d rather have Konerko or Dunn over Werth. But if we have Crawford for 5 years, he’ll be aiding in blocking some young guys like Trout. If we sign an older guy for 2 years, then Trout will be ready.

Plus, we don’t know how Crawford will look in years 3, 4, or 5 of that contract when he’s getting up there in age. Many people say his type of play doesn’t age as well as a slugger.

I don't see

why you don’t think he’ll get a 5 year deal. he’ll be one of the best free agents on the market, so there’ll surely be some stupid team that gives him that extra year to sign with them. I just hope it aint the Halos.

Jason Bay is a comparable case

He got four years with fifth year vesting option last off-season, which everyone but the Mets considered an overpay. He was coming off a career high 36 home run season in which he was slightly younger than Werth is now. Seeing how poorly Bay has done with the Mets this year, I think Werth will sell for considerably less than someone like Crawford, especially now that the Phillies are out of the bidding. Three years for $35-$45 million would be my guess, unless the Yankees get involved. I think they want Crawford, though.

Suboptimal - September 10, 2010 reply

That's the big issue at play

If there were just a few more decent outfielders hitting the market this year, I’d have no problem taking a chance on Werth at a decent price. I think of the 2003 offseason that was flooded with outfielders all getting nearly identical 2-year deals. Someone out there with more payroll space and a glaring need for a bat will offer him a generous salary and it’s simply not smart for the Angels to try and win a bidding war for another guy about to hit his decline phase.

And some people

say big sluggers don’t age particularly well. I think baseball players in general don’t age well and trying to figure out which ones will – outside the select superstars – is futile.

Crawford isn’t quite at superstar status, in spite of the hype he’s been given his whole career. He’s close enough, though, that I don’t think it’d be the worse gamble out there. As long it isn’t some crazy deal for $20 million a year he’d probably be worth it.

A month or two ago, I'd recommend shooting Matsui back to Japan via cannon.

I think if this organization can shore up other weak links in the lineup, Matsui would be a viable weapon in the post season.

as long as he's not playing everyday or playing vs. lefties

hk47 - September 10, 2010 reply

The Rev and I spoke about Aybar yesterday on HH Lunchtime talk so

I was just looking at Aybar’s season numbers on BBref and in pretty much every important area he has slid.

2009 was definitely his best season. He’s still pretty young so I don’t know if I’d call it his peak. With less men on base in front of him this season he’s grounded into 11 more double plays than last season.

Historical OPS #‘s for Admiral Ackbar (2006 omitted due to limited PA’s):
2007: .568
2008: .699
2009: .776
2010: .645

Also, this ’09 WAR was 4.3, his ’10 WAR 0.9.

Last little fun fact, 32% of his strikeouts this season have been looking, while it was only 15% last season.

All this awesomeness came after a raise of almost $1.6 million dollars. What’s with this guy I must ask. Admiral, we hardly knew ye.

Last one then I'll stop

In 136 games at SS last season he turned 102 double plays.

In 125 games at SS this season he’s turned 56.

That’s a 45% decrease if I’m not mistaken.

Can this be due to our pitches having a decreased GB rate towards his side? His total chance numbers being less than last season? The Coriolis effect?

Hell if I know.

Bud Black

I seriously doubt he “learned” how to get the most out of his pen in Anaheim. Seems pretty obvious by now he was the one doing the teaching.

surround yourself with people who are smarter than you... speak very little...

… get fat a fat contract and a fawning media.

Sosh, in that regards, in absolutely genius.

thats what

many CEOs do nowadays. even Warren Buffet has said he WANTS people smarter than him working for him in order to remain successful. when the head guy in charge is afraid to hire someone smarter than him because he wants to remain the smartest in the room, that just limits potential and lets ego get in the way of future success.

thats also why my company hired me, because I’m so much smarter than everyone else…at least thats what I keep telling myself.

Sosh is the Warren Buffet of baseball, too bad he couldn’t keep all those guys from bolting for better gigs.

dickyschofield - September 10, 2010 reply

Adam Dunn and Crawford please

Not my money.

PhiSlamma - September 10, 2010 reply

Colby?

If St. Louis is really look to trade him he’d be a nice pickup

GEEEZUS!!!

I’ve been saying this for a while now but I don’t think we need crawford. We can work a trade for another fielder Who’s fast, has a decent BA, has power, is younger then Crawford, and will be a lot cheaper then crawford.. his name is….
.
.
.
.
.
.
Matt Kemp!! He’s all of the above and will fill a lot of the holes we need. Out fielder, Power, base stealer. We can give them a package deal of Napoli and Kendrick which doesn’t seem to bad for him.

(!ts_a_C.A._thing) - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

I think we get enough

base running mistakes already. no thanks.

plus they’d want waaaay more than Nap and Kendrick. they’d start with Trout, then work their way through our minor league pitchers (perhaps Reckling).

again, no thanks. we have a CF, one who hasn’t been called out by his GM for not playing as good as he could be playing.

At this point, I'll take Joan Crawford.

do you blame him?

Their organization is a piece of shit, and they treat him like it too. Joe Torre sees this and that’s why he packing his bags and leaving after this year.
The Dodgers are a sinking ship and are in (last time I checked) 4th place. What motivation does he have to play better when they’re going nowhere?
The McCourts are dealing with divorce and either way no matter who wins that case the lawyers are all saying the team is gonna be sold. Btw Frank doesn’t even have deep enough pockets for a big money team like them. Their cutting payroll and would need cheaper players.
Of course they’d want Trout! Who the hell doesn’t?? But that’s where Reagins does his job and tell them what they can pick from? Are you an idiot? You act like we’re just gonna let them take everyone they ask for…
Last time I checked too Torii was a centerfielder who was moved to right, so Kemp can’t demand center but even if he did wasn’t Bourjos playing left just before he got called up? So what’s the big deal on moving him to left? He’s still a kid anyway and could work his way back to center.

(!ts_a_C.A._thing) - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

lolwut

hah.

I'm assuming this is responding to my comment

lets go through this in the same order of your rant;

yes I blame him.

he got called out by his GM 1 month into the season, when they were still in contention, so there goes that argument/excuse. plus, I don’t care if they are 100 games out of 1st, that is no excuse to dog it on the field. he’s getting paid to play his hardest, and the fans who pay to watch him (I’m assuming you’re at the front of the line for that) deserve to see him at his best. not dogging it because the people who happen to own the franchise are getting a divorce and the manager may be leaving in 5 months.

the Orioles have the worst record in baseball, but their players still play hard. how mad have Angels fans been at the lack of effort lately? fact is it doesn’t matter what your record is, or what place you are in, you should still bring your best every day. the fact that you’re actually making excuses on that is ridiculous and laughable.

again, whats going on off the field (the divorce) should have no bearing on Kemp’s effort on the field. its a distraction, but he’s being paid millions of $$$ to play baseball, not worry about whats going on in a courthouse. no matter what happens with the McCourts the Dodgers will remain a MLB team, so its not like he’s worried he won’t have a job next season.

no I’m not an idiot, but thanks for asking. you want to trade for Matt Kemp, one of the best young players in baseball, and you don’t think the Dodgers will insist on Trout? you think Reagins will ninja his way around that and give them who exactly? if they are going to trade Kemp and we won’t give up who they want from our system, trust me, they will move on to another team that will give up good prospects for him (something better than Napoli and Kendrick).

the big deal moving Bourjos to LF for Kemp is that Bourjos is a BETTER CF THAN KEMP. why would the Angels put Bourjos in LF to make room for a guy who is worse at the position?

You’ve made it very clear that you have a serious hard-on for Kemp, I’m happy for you. Now I think you need to go back and reread what you just wrote, perhaps you will then realize you are the one who sounds like a complete and total idiot, not to mention a-hole.

What he is saying....

Is that we would be able to move Kemp to left just as eady as when we moved torii to right. Bourjos is staying in centet, No matter what.

You are right in saying the Dodgers would want Trout, But guess what? How much you want to bet so did the D-Backs when we took their ace? Just because they want him doesnt mean they are getting him. Napoli+ Kendrick seems like a pretty good package. Maybe throw in a fringe prospect and thats about as good a deal as your going to get. Two proven Major leaguers and a prospect is more than enough for one guy.

I do agree that Kemp has no excuse to be dogging it though, He may be worried that the mccourt situation might disrupt his payday. Probably not though. No player ever should be playing half heartedly, and we personally know how frustrating it is to watch a player do it.

All in all, Kemp is a good player. A change of scenery to a potential contender may do him good. (Barring a succesfull off season) An outfield of Kemp, Bourjos, Hunter would be a lethal defensive crew. Kemps bat wouldnt hurt to, Especially if Conger comes through at catcher this year

Halos2011champs - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

wow

reading this idea in a well thought out, articulate manner really seems to make a difference compared to what was spewed above.

although I still don’t think they’d give up Kemp for Nap and Kendrick, unless the halos threw in one of their top ten prospects as well. perhaps if Howie was coming off a good season, and Nap wasn’t so obviously in the catching doghouse (with Sosh), it would be a different story.

if they were to trade Kemp the GM would have to get the best possible return for him, and I just don’t think Nap/Kendrick/propect-other-than-trout would be it considering there would be 28 other teams who could have a shot at making a better offer.

but this is just my opinion, of course

Its amazing what a cool head and decent grammar can do!

Kemp is a great player and i would love to see him in red, and i honestly think we could snag him without Trout. Keep in mind Trout is one of the best Prospects in Baseball, If not the best. Even the Dodgers themselves wouldnt give up their best prospect for someone on the level of Kemp, Dont get me wrong he is awesome and all, but Very few players are worth a Trout type prospect, Mr. Colletti is well aware of this, I hope.

Halos2011champs - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

You should be more concerned about Reagins' awareness of that last part

Im more than Confident Reagins wouldnt trade Trout

Unless it was For A-Rod, Tex, Longoria, And lee in one deal, With out taking on any money. Yeah thats hiw confident i am

Halos2011champs - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

Does the team have a problem with wire coat hangers or something?

For 2011 season, the Angels need:

New announcers for the fans
A new hitting coach
Mike Napoli to play FULL-TIME
Some fresh faces on the infield (Frandsen?)
A labotomy for Scoscio is ever so full of himself

^^and a lot less comments like this^^

AlohaHalofan - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

Why?

Probably

The lack of grammar, originality, or substance?

Everything I said I mean

Other than the comment about Scioscia

1. Who in the shit is Scoscio?

2. Blaming every slump on Mikki Hatchery is wrongheaded.
3. Scioscia is not full of himself, he’s full of lasagna.
4. You spelled lobotomy wrong.
5. Is this DOV?
6. lolwut?

I spelled it right the second time

I did not blame "every slump" on Hatcher

However, there comes a point in time when a change, any change, is needed. The players are not responding to Hatcher. I’m sure he works hard and puts out 100% for the team. But this entire year it is obvious his coaching style has fallen flat and he is no longer effective.

Maybe those people who prefer Curly?

BTW, love the pic.

Barca - September 11, 2010 reply

Hahahahahahah

Halos2011champs - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

The part I like about your 2011 Solution

is putting Kevin Frandsen in the infield.

uhh, i should have dialed up the sarcasm on the post.

I know, the needle on my sarcasm detector barely moved.

As I recall, the sarcasm detector broke much earlier in the season.

I laughed

If grammar is the case,

It’s “a lot FEWER comments like this”

No i think a lot less is correct

“Fewer comments like this” comared to " Less comments like this" Would be a better argument

Halos2011champs - September 10, 2010 via mobile reply

Angels logic is actually right here; which is shocking in its own right.

“Use fewer if you’re referring to people or things in the plural (e.g. houses, newspapers, dogs, students, children)”

~~-Source~~ Oxford Dictionary

Taught English grammar many years. That was an easy one.

then what the hell was up with this????

A labotomy for Scoscio is ever so full of himself

just sayin

LLOL

I think its a cryptogram.

Cryptogram for mongo!

Mongo only pawn... In game of life :(

aww...mongo straight!

I think he's channelling 1866baseball

That's what happens when your mind goes a lot faster than your fingers.

Hey man, I hope you know we're just busting your chops.

Don’t take internet ridicule personal.

Most of us look like this:

LOL

to be fair

I have contacts now…and quit smoking

Dude,

you were rockin’ it!! ;)

rmhalofan - September 10, 2010 reply

I know

but now with the contacts I’m unstoppable…even though I’ve gained 40 pounds of pure Twinkies and have yet to update my computer model. but I’ve learned that many chicks out there dig MS DOS.

Congrats man.

I'll miss the opportunity to comment tonight during the game

But I’ll be in the lower level behind the plate – It won’t be because of the above trashing I took. I enjoy the back and forth. In the future, I’ll remember to spell check and be a little more insightful.