Halos Heaven

Follow up

That’s how fricking bad our bullpen is.

Ladies and Gentlemen — your 2010 Angels

I had exactly same thought

SoCalWine - August 6, 2010 reply

was at the game yesterday

i was telling the people around me the game was over once FRAUD came in. I was even saying it when he was warming up before Hunter’s HR. The only thing to cheer about (besides the three run hr) was Gorgeous Bourjous making some great plays (unlike Hunter).

o and i voted for FRAUD as a sick joke.

Halos in DE - August 6, 2010 reply

I'll go Kohn

only because of upside… and I don’t have the heart to vote fuentes.

clover_black - August 6, 2010 reply

i voted K-Rod

not K-Rod 2.0 but the first.
you need to clear that up for other people
man i miss K-rod
maybe we can trade our bullpen for him

DAD OF VLAD - August 6, 2010 reply

Mark Cuban is exactly what I would be like as an owner

Don’t worry boys and girls, only a few more decades ’til I have the cash to buy the Angels!

On another note; how has Thompson been doing lately? I’ll admit, I haven’t been watching a ton lately and the last I think I saw him pitch was in NY.

Commander_Nate - August 6, 2010 reply

surprisingly pretty good..

but sosh only puts him in garbage time… if the game is on the line, he will put in shields or rodriguez

clover_black - August 6, 2010 reply

I really want him to start using him in key setup situations.

Lets find out how good he is. How good he can be.

Wally's World - August 6, 2010 reply

There should be a "none of the above" option.

Fred Fredrix - August 6, 2010 reply

Agreed

I can’t even bring myself to answer this one

ryanfea - August 6, 2010 reply

Rich Thompson has been our best reliever so far.

Wow, if you had told me I would ever say that sentence, I would have thought you were crazy.

~MMP~ - August 6, 2010 reply

The best arm the pen this year is either Fuentes or Thompson based on performance

It sure as heck ain’t Kevin Jepsen, who right now is inexplicably leading the voting

hk47 - August 6, 2010 reply

He looks the most intimidating...that's got to count for something.

Commander_Nate - August 6, 2010 reply

I don't know, I think Rodney has him beat there

~MMP~ - August 6, 2010 reply

Intimidating?

Rodney looks like you could distract him with a shiny pebble.

This explains a lot...

“Man, I’m gonna blow away this dude with …. Wow! Look at that shiny thing up in the stands!”

Just look at the numbers

Rodney was the most effective. . .

Oooh, butterfly!

Sorry, what was I saying?

righteous halo - August 6, 2010 reply

Fernando Rodney:

Throw as hard as possible. Hope something good happens.

Best = least worst

Had to go with Fuentes. It probably helps that the Angels haven’t been in a position to put Mr. Paper Airplane in a game for what seems like a few weeks, so most of my ire and rage has been directed elsewhere.

If the poll was about the worst pitcher in the bullpen, it would be equally difficult to answer.

Big Easy Halofan - August 6, 2010 reply

There is no "Best" pitcher in the Angels bullpen

only a “Least Crappiest”

Quad Fin Rider - August 6, 2010 reply

Hear hear!

Right now, yes I think the Angels are about the worst team in baseball.

There are only 3 things interesting for the rest of this season for me.

1.Jered Weaver’s continued bad-ass level of play.

2. Peter Bourjos (Hoping he’s the leadoff guy we so badly need next year)

3. Dan Haren (Just glad we have him)

Bring on 2011!

Monkeyspanked - August 6, 2010 reply

I share the same sentiment with all three of those bullet points

when Fuentes is the best arm in the pen (he got my vote, sadly)...

its time to reevaluate everything

daze - August 6, 2010 reply

Paper Airplane!

So true, but oh so sad. Damn funny though!

aces666high - August 6, 2010 reply

It's Jepsen, and it's not even close

He leads the regulars in the pen in every meaningful statistical category: strikeouts, strikeouts-to-walks, home-run rate, flyball rate, line-drive rate, WAR, FIP, xFIP, you name it. Everything except ERA, which is a horrible indicator of reliever performance. It just fluctuates too much over a limited sample of innings, and Jepsen only has 36 2/3 IP.

Imagine if we judged starters by the same standard: Jepsen has only made the equivalent of about six starts. If he pitched a CGSO in his next start, his ERA would drop all the way to 3.55. Then how would we feel about him?

Thompson hasn’t even pitched 10 innings yet, so his ERA means even less than Jepsen’s. I’m in wait-and-see mode with him. Fuentes’s strikeout and walk rates are solid, but all those flyballs allowed make him a serious home run liability against right-handed hitters. It’s really just his incredible effectiveness against lefties that are keeping his numbers respectable. Considering that Jepsen has almost no lefty/righty split whatsoever, I think he is absolutely the superior pitcher.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one

I think Jepsen is terrible. His ERA is high and deservedly so, because most of the runs he has allowed this year he has allowed when he started the inning. In other words, he isn’t leaving runners behind that other pitchers are allowing to score. His WHIP isn’t great, his WAR value just beats out Trevor Bell. Look, Jepsen has great stuff. Some of his numbers are great. But my eyes don’t deceive me, when he’s out there- he gives up runs. It’s as simple as that.

hk47 - August 6, 2010 reply

If you value a pitcher by the scoreboard

Then I guess that’s fine. But I can pretty much guarantee that Jepsen’s WHIP and ERA will go down if his other rate stats hold constant. That’s a big “if” of course, but things like strikeouts and groundballs tend to be a lot more consistent from month-to-month than hits or earned runs. He’s at least one bright spot for the bullpen next year, which besides him is currently made up of a bunch of question marks and Fernando Rodney. And that’s just depressing.

Granted, you are right about the fact the whole bullpen has been a horror show

hk47 - August 7, 2010 reply

He has been unlucky

But you can’t argue that “it’s not even close”. I’ll buy Jepsen as the best, but Fuentes actually edges him just a bit in k/bb and WHIP. Jepsen’s stuff is unmatched in that pen, but his command is almost Rodney-bad.

What really stands out to me here with Jepsen and Fuents is how little they’ve been used at this point in the season. A lot of that has to do with not have many leads to protect, but when you have two guys who are obviously so much better than the rest, why haven’t they been used more? I suppose on the plus side Jepsen should have very little mileage on his arm next season, when hopefully he plays a bigger role.

Jepsen's command does have room to improve

But his walk rate is only a hair worse than Fuentes (3.90 to 4.17 BB/9). It’s still acceptable with his outstanding strikeout numbers, giving him a slightly better overall K/BB rate (2.59 to 2.53). Fernando’s control stats aren’t even in the same zipcode: 5.15 BB/9 and 1.36 K/BB. Yuck.

The most remarkable thing about Jepsen is his groundball rate, though. Very, very rarely do you find a pitcher who both keeps it on the ground and punches guys out. It’s usually an either/or proposition. Fuentes has been punished for his extreme flyball tendencies with 5 home runs, but Jepsen has allowed 2. This is why I’m really excited about his future.

It’s just as well that Jepsen has a light work load this year. I’d rather save his arm for next year. The reason is really just the way Scioscia chooses to manage his bullpen. He doesn’t play match-ups, and he doesn’t bring in his best arm in a tight spot. He sticks almost exclusively to assigned roles, and Jepsen and Fuentes are only assigned to pitch late innings when the team has a slim team. Obviously with a losing record, this year’s team hasn’t had all that many late leads.

Of course

The question was kind of rhetorical. Seeing as though Scioscia has seen the light recently with regards to OBP and outfield defense, hopefully his next premonition will be that match-ups work better than roles when it comes to using your bullpen.

When did Scioscia see the light regarding OBP?

He’s still batting Aybar and his .333 OBP in the lead-off position, usually followed by Howie at .305. Granted, there are only two starters with above aveage OBPs to choose from (Hunter and Abreu), but I haven’t seen anything to indicate that Scioscia or the Angels in general are committed to anything besides contact hitting.

Well, they played a lot of lip service to it last season

Signing Matsui over Vlad was another indication that they began valuing patience over hacking, as well as bring back Abreu. I suppose Mike thought that Aybar could “learn” how to get on base and Erick’s effort has been admirable. The results just haven’t been there. I think he was hoping Howie could provide a “spark” which obviously never happened.

OK, so maybe Mike hasn’t seen the light and it’s Reagins that is attempting to infuse more OBP into the line up. Either way, I hope it continues.

Why haven't they been used more?

Because of Sosh’s ridiculous adherence to the overrated use of “roles.”

I asked the question earlier this season, pointing out the odd double standard that he has, and got no real replies – Why does Sosh say that he is going to go with the hot hitters, but he doesn’t go with the hot pitchers? Instead he insists on limiting them to their so-called “roles,” even to the team’s detriment. Why does Sosh expect hitters/position players to be flexible in adjusting their roles day to day in the lineup and field, but he doesn’t expect the same from pitchers?

It makes sense to me. If F-Rod II is struggling right now, don’t use him! If Fuentes has been pitching well, bring him into the close game, even if we’re DOWN by 1 rather than UP. Even if it’s the 8th inning, and not the 9th. That’s what managers do with pinch hitters, bring in the best guy for that situation. Why is that with pitching, rather than bringing in the RF who is most likely to shut down the opposition, Sosh just brings in a sucky RF, crosses his fingers, and hopes Mr. Sucky RF can get through an inning this time, even though he didn’t last time.

Rally Manatee - August 6, 2010 reply

Not sure what to tell you, here

Scioscia has always acted this way. In the past it probably won the Angels more games than it lost them, but that was because the pitchers he relied on were actually good, and the bad ones were rarely put in positions that could hurt the team.

I also don’t think Scioscia knows what to do with a lefty specialist because he’s never really had one. Darren Oliver is the only left-handed reliever with significant playing time under Scioscia, but he has almost no platoon split, which would have made it inefficient to use him as a specialist. Fuentes is really the first good LOOGY candidate I can remember, but he’s being paid to close, so he’s going to close, dammit.

Closers and left-handed specialists are kind of overrated anyways. No manager in the game really handles a bullpen properly. The Angels just need better pitchers, plain and simple. That’s not Scioscia’s fault.

Sosh Like to Divy Playing Time

This is just my observation that Sosh likes to divy playing time. That is all well and good
if one assumes that each player is just as good as the other. If this were the Yankees
line up, that would make sense. However, since, this is what the Angels have, it would
make sense to use your hottest hitters and pitchers for that matter. Take for instance
Kazmir which I deem to be the WORST decision to bring him over and pay him big
bucks. He implodes in last year’s playoffs, has multiple injuries yet, is allowed to
pitch game after game regardless of his sorry ass performance. The same is
true for Santana. Even if he has control problems, he is still allowed to pitch. I guess,
the rationale would be who would the Angels start? It seems the Angels MAKE DO
which is not a very good plan to begin with! The Haren deal probably is good but,
what they do with Kazmir and Santana still needs to be answered. The good thing
with losing is now the Angels have the incentive to clean up their line up and make
it stronger. If not, we will get more of the same, sub par, anemic performance next
year and the year after too!

JimmyBlue - August 7, 2010 reply

I'd just like to see someone try it for once.

Just pitch the guys who are hot in the close games, and the guys who are not when we’re up by 5 or more. Who cares if Fuentes is supposed to be the closer? Who cares if Rich Thompson isn’t a million dollar veteran? Forget about the labels. If Thompson, for example, is seeming unhittable, let him pitch the 9th with a 1 run lead! I think these “roles” have turned more into “egos.”

Rally Manatee - August 7, 2010 reply

I voted for None of the Above.

hell ya

DAD OF VLAD - August 6, 2010 reply

Sad

How can we go from “one of the best bullpens in baseball, year after year”….. To that pathetic list above. I looked down that, and I honestly don’t trust any of those guys holding onto a lead.

SMUangelFan - August 6, 2010 reply

Sad story, really

K-Rod got fat and wanted too much money. Shields got old, hurt, and useless. Oliver was given up on for some unexplained reason, along with Darren O’Day. Arredondo suffered a potentially career-ending injury. Speier was a disastrously bad signing. Donnelly’s juice ran out. Gregg was never that good to begin with. And a bunch of young guys the Angels were hoping would fill the gaps ending up being horrible or injury-prone (or both): Bootcheck, Bulger, Moseley, Resop. That’s life, I guess.

K-Rod got fat?

Is this the new bad health meme now that he has forced people to surrender on the whole thing about how “his violent mechanics are going to force his arm to fall off any time soon”??

Stirrups - August 6, 2010 reply

Have you seen him lately?

He’s not Prince Fielder, but he’s certainly not the guy he was 5 years ago either. He’s had a nice bounce back season this year, but he throws in the low-90s these days, which is not what you’d like to see from a 28 year-old who should be in his prime. But fireballing phenoms do seem to have unusual career arcs. Scott Kazmir will attest to that.

Come on. Really? What are we looking for here? Why?

Maybe his velocity is down ON PURPOSE, because he is being coached to (ala Koufax) emphasize better command? Who knows? His WHIP is the best it has been since 2006. Same with SO/BB. Overall his numbers remain right in line with the balance of his career: some a little better and some a little worse.

But there it is. Yes, Virginia, we no longer sit around waiting for KRod’s arm to explode. Now we sit here pointing out that he no longer has his teenager physique. Fortunately, we got a guy 4 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier.

Stirrups - August 9, 2010 reply

Maybe because

he was so young when we first saw him. We all thicken up in our late twenties. I’d be much more concerned with the declining velocity than his figure. That and the fact that the AL learned to stop swinging at all those sliders.

K Rod way Overrated Anyways

K Rod was way overrated and the proof is the only time he did good in the playoffs,
was in 2002 when the Angels won the title. In all the playoffs he played since, the
Angels lost because he imploded in the playoffs. He got lucky that year because
he was new and the hitters have not adjusted to his pitches. His delivery is jerky,
unpredictable and wild! It was amazing that he set that record but, I still say it
was luck the same way a number of his wins ended on one lucky pitch. His
lucky breaks hid his weakness which is his delivery. The performance he has
had with the Mets is still anemic and pretty bad considering the Mets paid him
big bucks. I do not regret that the Angels let him go.

JimmyBlue - August 7, 2010 reply

Simple answer

Bud Black left.

Our good relievers also left or stopped being good, I think that has much more to do with it than Bud Black

~MMP~ - August 6, 2010 reply

^^^THIS^^^^

IE Angel - August 6, 2010 reply

Trust me guys....

Your are still way, way better than us. We just got ‘lucky’. Wish you guys all the best – last year playoffs I watched that last game against Boston where they came back against Papelbon….it was the greatest thing ever to see ‘Pink Hat Nation’ go deathly silent.

NewYorkOriole - August 6, 2010 reply

Thank you. That shouldn't make me feel any better, but it really does.

agent_99 - August 6, 2010 reply

Us mid-market teams...

need to stick together….

NewYorkOriole - August 6, 2010 reply

doing it against papshmere

made it 1000 times better! and it was already GREAT

2pintsofbooze - August 6, 2010 reply

He hasn't been the same since.

Not quite so invincible this season. 5 blown saves, more HRs, fewer strike outs.

Rally Manatee - August 6, 2010 reply

You're welcome

And thank you.

Commander_Nate - August 6, 2010 reply

And he's welcome for the Cal Ripken record-breaking party against us as well...

what a terrible game for the Angels, but a great game for Cal.

Downing Rules - August 6, 2010 reply

Thank Lackey For That

Thank John Lackey for that but, he is gone now! He was the best pitcher the Angels
had but, had a primadonna attitude. I hated it when he threw his temper tantrums
like a little kid. I say good riddance to him.
Give the Orioles credit, a W is still what counts and that shows how bad the Angels are
this year. No way to sugar coat it! Angels need to rebuild and get rid of some dead weight
players. I say get rid of Kazmir, trade Santana, get 2 very good hitters for starters. Angels
have done very badly lately about picking up players except Haren which should help.
If the Angels still do not start rebuilding now, they will revert to the old California Angels
and who wants to see that?

JimmyBlue - August 7, 2010 reply

Its cool that the Ump directly cost the Marlins a win because:

A) He is human, therefore the aspect of him being wrong is somehow not only apart of the game but an acceptable way to lose the game. The Marlins should look at this loss as a positive thing as it goes along with baseball tradition of blowing big calls.

B) The Marlins shouldn’t have put themselves in a position where a clearly fair hit down the line would have scored the game winning run. Every team should be ahead every game by AT LEAST 5 runs so no one call can influence the game directly. The mere fact it was a tie game with a runner in scoring position shows that the Marlins just didnt want it enough. The Phillies deserved the win because there was a close play when the Marlins just relied on a person paid to make a correct call to do exactly that. Shame on the Marlins, how dare you put that ump in a position to do his job.

Pick one of the two.

Either way, you are an idiot.

PhiSlamma - August 6, 2010 reply

Rec'd

Baseball folklore is so full of interesting contradictions. This blown call actually determined the outcome of a game, and could be a huge factor if the NL East race goes down to the wire. People are a little miffed, but what the juices really flowing about the deficiencies of human umpiring? A missed chance at a personal accomplishment: Armando Galarraga’s perfect game. Sentimental much?

Totally agree

Those are the only two arguments anyone ever has in defense of umpires who make horrible calls, and they are both asinine. If anyone with any real authority (GM, owner, etc.) calls someone out (Selig) on how stupid those arguments are, we might get closer to expanded use of instant replay.

Rally Manatee - August 6, 2010 reply

Even worse are those who agree there is a problem but still won't embrace instant replay.

Some people seem to be fine acknowledging the problem and then wishing it would magically go away.

snowhor - August 6, 2010 reply

Did you guys see the lineup Angels Insider is posting?

Abreu-LF
Aybar-SS
Callaspo-3B
Hunter-RF
Matsui-DH
Izturis-2B
Kendrick-1B
Wilson-C/Bourjos-CF
Weaver SP

kbrown2225 - August 6, 2010 reply

Just saw that

Interesting move. Not sure about Callapso in the 3 hole.

Epic Dean - August 6, 2010 reply

Not sure about Callapso anywhere 1 through 9.

snowhor - August 6, 2010 reply

I don't know about it

Yeah I agree, Callapso in the three hole seems a little iffy and I know Bobby’s OBP is second behind Tori but so is his RBI’s and putting him lead-off is going to cut in to that. Maybe Sosh is just trying to shake things up in general. Hope it is not just rearranging deck chairs on the Titannic.

kbrown2225 - August 6, 2010 reply

so "are" his RBI's (sorry for the poor grammer)

kbrown2225 - August 6, 2010 reply

I'm pretty sure we've all gone a little insane if...

there’s really 14 votes for Scot Shields.

kle18 - August 6, 2010 reply

I lost my shit days ago.

Probably after the sox swept us.