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DOS: Game Thread 2

Game Thread 2

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Let's go Halos!!!
ahhhh... new game thread smell

Come on guys, WIN THIS DAMNED GAME!

does it smell like a bat

after you just fouled one straight back?

dunno

ask Juanita…. he could tell you

and we're only in the bottom of the 4th....
Howdy SonsaBitches
Question guys

who is the last player/manager you guys can remember. I was a kid in the 80’s when I know Pete Rose did it for awhile right? Was he the last one to do it? And was it common in earlier times?

Are you suggesting Mathis as the next one?
for the Rangers Single A team sure.
I was thinking more on the lines of a mexican league
what and give him access to 29 cent tacos, dollar beers, and 5 dollar hookers?

no thanks, it was meant to be a punishment

Very true.

Single A Texas league is perfect.

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach"
Rev's the only one old enough to answer that...........
Bobby is old enough
I think LaRussa was one

but Rose was the last to do it.

It has happened a few times in bb history but was never “common”

hmm.

Let’s see. Joe Torre comes to mind.

Mathbunt
he cant even do that right
Shields is going to have 12 K's before he's done.
How many will Scot Shields have?
More than you and I combined.

By one.

ugh
Sad part is that could refer to almost anything
clearly the media doesnt watch this team

starting pitching is not this teams problem

Hey, he didn't strikeout!
All 3 guys just tried to bunt....

that is a new low.

Angels flexing their muscles

Bunt, Bunt Bunt

Well that didn't take long.
surely other teams must practice their bunt defense before angel games.

i

Why practice anything else?
I have a serious love/hate relationship with this team.
i ahve a hate relationship with this team

but has not affected my love relationship with the Angels

Same here. Love the Halos.

Just not this bunch in particular. Still, Go Halos!

I seriously hate to love this team.
Hey, Kazmir might make it through 6 innings!
this is whats sad.

as bad as kaz is the offense is worse.

What is the over/under on a leadoff walk?
HalosNorCal

amazing video….I used to live right off the exit where he crashed.

really? must have been kind of strange to see it then?
that's actually a radar trap in that area...

just weird to see some place I used to live like that

I bet that it is

glad that you liked the video though :). I had to post it because it has to be one of the best crashes that I’ve seen recorded

I think what saved him (so far anyway) is that his car spun in the air

and the back end hit the pillar. If he was ejected, it was on very soft ground and he didn’t lose momentum….if he slammed to a stop, his brain would be scrambled

yeah, but I imagine that he is still in really bad shape

It’ll probably be a couple of months before he recovers enough to stand trial

I wonder if we'll get to see Walden again tonight
why throw a 22 year old with a history of arm problems

in back to back games when we are going to be 9 games out….

wait just a minute, sounds like a perfect opportunity in Soth’s mind to get him in the game.

True, I hadn't thought about the arm problems. Doubt we'll see him them.
are you accusing soth of poor bullpen management /sarcasm
dont worry

Iron Mike has his script for this game just like every other game

yea Jeps 7th, Rodney 8th, Fuentes 9th

and a Costco size of adult diapers next to the tub of bubblegum.

thats for Mikes pasta
including the obligatory cough during the postgame interview.
k3yerout Longo

2nd time tonight homie

Kaz has settled down nicely to pitch mediocre.
How has Kaz struck out Longo twice?
How has he only given up 5 hits?
they know they have an insurmountable lead

and are trying to end the game as quickly as possible so they can go clubbing with our usual 2B, Howie TalkShow

k3yerout Abrew...
holy Crap

he pulled the ball!!

2 in a row

Hacker will have words with these guys later.

Howie working on that batting title...(finally)

:)

who cares about batting titles
Alex Johnson
so I hear anyway

twas before my time

okay, let's tie this up!!!
Hey, another single.
We're going to slap Shields right out of this game
Callaspo's becoming quite the ticket, isn't he?
Callspo has the most

meaningless hits in the history of mlb they produce and score no runs and yet Iron Mike bats him 3rd, he wouldnt hit 3rd on a AAA team

Callaspo's BA is now .289, second to Torii's .290.............
its not how many hits

its when you get hits that matter BA is totally overrated

It totally matters...

How would Torii GIDP?

clearly

you think like Mike, its way more important to get hits with runners on base of RISP

but but

How do you get RISP without getting on base? Others are clearly failing way more than Callaspo

Now lets see if we can score with RISP.
dont get too greedy
No kidding bro.
We could use a HR right about now
No no

Iron Mike doesn’t like HRs, goes against his game plan

ok

we are almost 3 hrs into the game and it’s only the 5th inning. WTF? I thought that just the MFY and BoSux milked games like this.

I wish we had 3 hrs tonight...
Callaspo has raised his batting average 14 points since coming over.
Too bad our big bad #4 hitter can't get a hit...
I'd like to take this opportunity to call him out

it looks like’s he’s playing scared in the big games when we could really use him….

That’s for you Howie.

Torii Hunter pisses me off.
!@#@$%^&*&*()(*%^$#@! Shit!
protected pick clap clap clap
Man, good thing I didn't get to excited with those 2 crushed singles
Why do you build me up?
Just to let me dowm

so fitting……

-10000000000000000000

for the buttercup reference.

that's so very sad
this song is better

than buttercup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbH_sDyWZqo

Ignore that errant post above

I meant to say that One West Bank ruined that song

is that the song that they use?

I’ve never heard their commercials.

So I've been told ;>
but Mike would be very happy with that inning

they pressured the pitcher, forget about scoring runs Mike prefers sbs and running the bases, what a tool

Commenting about yourself again?

Post #7 of the day, I see. 8th ever.

and your point is?
Lol Kazmir is still in the game?

Must be stretching him out for the playoffs

Are the Angels going to trade him?
Who on Earth would take him?
Sarcasm...as in that's the only way he's getting to the playoffs
Oh I was serious about him playing for the Angels in the playoffs.....

Lol

I pray this is Kaz's last batter.
his last inning for sure
If he reaches base, most likely
Yes!

Now we get to watch our stellar bullpen shut em down!

Picking up a "W"

is not on Kazmirs mind Gubi. come on.

Thanks for that Kazmir
Denny Green said it best...

He is who we thought he was.

KOHN!!!!

Please don’t let this game get outta hand.

Kohn, Rodriguez, Walden

Our new look bullpen??

I guess so. Bring on the young 'uns.
I wish Trumbo

Was our new look first baseman.

Unrealized potential OR?

wasted promise

k3yerout Kelly
He sure Kohntrolled that atbat

nice job.

I see what you did there. Well played!
Shoppach couldn't Kohntrol himself and check his swing
He was glad to Kohntribute.
He looks kinda Kohnstipated
are you really trying to win when

you bring in Kohn into a 2 run game?

Why not he Kohntrolled the inning
yeah he only hit it over the fence
Well

He took out Karmis… Coulda left him in to give up 13

I'm still not Kohnvinced that he is the real deal yet.
Upton is crying...

Kaz is out of the game

Lol he still hit it to eht fence
NICE GORGEOUS!!!
I <3 Pete
I <3 him more
I <3 him times infinity
DANG SUCKA!!!!

that guy’s got it!

Bourjos is the man!
Bourjous is the sole excitement on this entire team

and I love it!!

are there bourjos jerseys in the team store yet?
nice catch

Mike will says its the best catch in the history of MLB during his BS postgame comments

Great play by Bourjos!

If we’d only called him up earlier.

Yo y'all
red my boy.

What’s up?

This way ^
Very clever.

You must be drunk. That’s the only time i’m clever!

Hung over *again*?
No, early day tomorrow.

The only thing i’m drinking is coke tonight.

No, early day tomorrow.

The only thing i’m drinking is coke tonight.

is there an echo in here? :)
Snortin' whiskey... and drinkin' cocaine.
It's my computer.

I haven’t drank or snorted anything tonight. Tomorrow maybe, not tonight.

one whiskey, one bourbon and one beer

makes for a great night

when have you ever been clever?

and no, that wasn’t a lame attempt at a bad rhyme :P

I've been clever sporadically.

But nothing to brag about.

we all have our moments :)

just giving you a hard time

I got that bro. No worries.

Were all friends here in Haloland! ;)

Hey Red

How’s it going?

What did he do im not watching it
so I think it was worth watching this super slow game just for that
pete is the only reason to watch this teamperiod this season
well i would say that that's true after kendry went down
So Pete would have -1.5 HRRAR

HR robbed above replacement

K3yeroutsui trying to K 2x's today and get on...alas, NO!
Someone besides Matsui want to try to get us some runs? Anyone?
you mean besides St. Peter?
ZzzzzZzzzzZzzzz.......
That's going to dramatically affect Juan's speed!
From "Really Slow" to "Wow, he's actually moving?"
wait are you saying juanito is slow /sarcasm
I have no first hand knowledge of his intellect.
Watching Pete play CF makes Angels baseball almost tolerable!
Watching him bat makes me wonder..........
Watching Pete play CF

makes Juan Rivera look like he never moves.

Gameday shows an injury delay between Outsui and Juanta GIDP.

What happened?

look like Juan fouled one off of his calf

he’s ok for now

if we can just get a couple of guys on

then our premium players come up

Juarning track rolls one down the LF juarning track...nice double
Nice AB Juan
Juan with a couple of good AB's tonight.
you know, sometimes I think it's too bad Juan wasn't simply the primary DH this year...
Matsui has been better than him though
that was a hanger if I ever saw one
I still am amazed at how hard Juan can hit the ball w/o striding at all.
Wow...I thought Eybar was supposed to be fast...
Can we get a 2 out hit?
mathis is up to bat. so... no
You should have said "may"

I’m not sure we can.

And now Mathis needs to get a hit. We're screwed
If Aybar was a jerk he would have stepped on Shield's ankle on that play
prediction time: Mathis will strike out on the 6th pitch
Pff, since when does he take pitches?
ok, so it was the 4th pitch. my bad.
Ain't that the truth.

A 6 pitch AB by Mathis? It’ll never happen.

youre giving him 6? generous
If I was at the game right now

I would be booing the ENTIRE time Jeff Mathis was on the field.

on offense
Why just on offense? He's not good at defense either.
because I would like to be able to talk at some point within the month

following the game

Mathis needs to swing a tree to actualy make contact.
Premium player right there.
I could strike out every time. I would love his paycheck!
Mathis rally killing K

no big surprise there.

Yeah, what a shocker.

God he sucks.

the really sad thing

is that after last seasons ALDS and his performance before he was hurt, I was pretty jazzed about him. Now, whatever it is that he had, is gone, and he sucks.

Yeah, I remember the Mathis love earlier this season.

I was afraid all along that the ALCS and his early season success was a fluke. I would have rather been wrong.

Haha keep trotting out there SOSH!!

By law of averages he is bound to get a hit or at least hit the ball.

hey he got a triple when we were already way ahead on Saturday.
Yeah

that was his one hit…he’ll get one another one eventually.

sometimes even shit doesnt stink
Thanks Jeff, glad you showed up.
he showed up?

really? I see a meat puppet, not a baseball player.

So sick of Mathis.

If you don’t want Napoli at least put in Wilson

aren't the Angels like 15-6 in games he's started?
Yeah, I guess Soth abandoned his CERA philosophy
Mike has a philosophy please share
You're an idiot
If Mathis can get a hit here, I will change my user name to a symbol, a la Prince.

I was typing this and he struck out before I could finish this
Sumbitch!

You gotta be quick....

To keep up with a Mathis strikeout.

Jeff Mathis

50 strikeouts to 4 walks. That is positively Wood-esque.

I rather have Wood play
which one looks better in a uniform though..

and who has the prettier swing?

He is who we thought he was.

To bad our skipper doesn’t.

Good to see Sosh isn't playing favorites

and it’s good to see Matshit sitting….oh wait nvm.

mike has his favorites

but mostly he manages like AYSO, everyone plays

Wood is still worse

Mathis: .200 / .218 / .300
Wood: .163 / . 180 / .219

the amount of suck is minimal though

they are both horrible.

Don't worry, given enough ABs, I'm sure Mathis will fix that.
Mathisrocks!
Blackmail

theory more and more believable… incriminating pictures must exist

Anyone gonna Kohnplain that K Rod II is in

Instead of Kohn?

I Kohncur with Sosh's decision

but I Kohn’t wait till Walden comes in!

like I said

are you really trying to win when you bring in Kohn then the new Krod. That’s hoping to get outs not expecting to get outs

Why...

the rest of the bullpen sucks. You bring them in just to pad the stats of the other team. At least the new regime has a chance of getting outs.

Because the bullpen we started the year with was so effective at getting outs?
in a game you have to win

you go with your best pitchers, Kohn and Krod aren’t it

And who is?

Rodney, Jepsen, Fuentes?

They have been decent enough this year

With Bulger out and Jepsen and Rodney having bad seasons, it makes sense to go to these guys

i agree with going with the hot hand so to speak

but Mike is pitching wrath of Kohn and Krod because the Angels are behind not because they are pitching well

Uh... Bring in Weaver, Santana and Haren
Haren isnt all that
Well I wasx gonna write Saundo, and then Piniero... BUT
I Kohn't believe it
Cowart sucks..........he stuck out twice tonight
That AZL team is going to combine for over 200 k's

what is 2 more

If the season were a little longer...

…they could all have 200 K’s each.

Bolden could make it to 300 K's
I think his Avg. is 2 a game
I think his batting average is .002.
He has 10 effing atbats
Mathisitis is contagious
Better send Hatcher to work with him
you mean Hatcher the clown?

for what to tell some jokes

just wait until Hacker will get to talk to him

those 3-2 K’s will turn into 1-0 flares to the opposite field

It's not Hatcher's fault.

He’s a great hitting instructor and hitting instructors don’t do anything anyway. Or something.

yeah I read that article

what a joke then why have a batting coach at all? Total crap

Can you believe this, Rev?
Two quality outings was too much to ask for.
Old Expo lid is cool.
I wonder what his favorite player is
We sure have two winners in the booth don't we.
Strike 3 damnit!

Speed up the game!

Soth always looks either pissed off or confused

not used to seeing that from him, can’t be good at all for the team

hes grinding all season

like he can’t believe what’s happening on the field.

can someone teach Aybar to drop a knee
This crappy year...

might end up being a blessing. A lot more guys that give me hope than I thought we had in the minors are now getting a shot to play.

I will always remember this forgettable season.
plus

every loss brings us that much closer to a top-tier draft pick

the closer we are to danger...

the farther we are from harm?

The next Brandon Wood?

The next Jered Weaver?
Garret Cole??

If we can fall that far and get him, that’d be sweet.

Walked him, dammit
he got the job done

no blood, no foul.

That was terrifying
Hey, good news

Back to the Future is on Nick@Nite HD.

Marty McFly and Doc Brown, FTW.

Can the Angels hop in the Delorian and go back to 2002??
I love that movie

remember when Doc gets the time machine to run on Mathis instead of uranium. So awesome.

oh cmon guys

I cracked myself up with this one. No one liked it?

K-ROD II!
Yeah baby! A bright spot
What sort of philosophical theory is Zobrism, anyways?
all I know is that it's the Ying to the Yang

that is Mathism

Cna we call Frankie 2

LUCAN … anyone get that reference?

Cheesy '70s TV show about a kid raised by wolves
(no wikipedia needed)

I’m pathetically nerdy some times

Come on Pete

make the great catch and now do something with the stick

Great approach by Bourjos on that swing..............
You get your wish
Petey!

Now steal 2nd.

Yes!

At least a double out of this, as Willie Mays Hates would say!

Bourjos wasn't trying to do too much there, Gubi approves
way to stay within yourself, inside the ball
Did he stay within his mechanics like Dean Chance?
I muted Gubi several seasons ago
Great 2-strike approach!

B-Wood take some notes.

approach?

hes a slap hitter anyway, same approach every at bat

Petey doesn't seem like he broods on his batting issues like B-wood
Cough it up Randy Choke!
or not.

Even Halo posters are striking out tonight.

Were all suffering from disappointment and malaise.

Much like our team, we suck.

I don't know about malaise, but I'm feeling slow and lethargic. :}
ZZZzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz
Does neutralizing the Angels offense

…really require multiple pitching changes in one inning?

there should be a rule

only 1 pitching change per inning

seriously, this game is long enough already
Chad Qualuude up
From whom did Maddon learn the mid-inning pitching change?

Lord knows it wasn’t from Soth.

He might have just thought about it

And reached a logical conclusion.

I blame Tony LaRussa for this trend
He's been hanging out in the AL East.

Probably learned it from Skeletor and Francona

people forget

Maddon was with the Angels well before Iron Mike got there

Qualls is crap

Hit this bitatch Howie, then sell him a TV.

Maybe Callapso will have a better chance.
I can't wait to have a full season with Gorgeous

The dude is EXCITING!

Speed Kills
And it is FUN to watch
aybar is fast

How is that working for him?

and he's only going to get better
Yep

that’s why the full season will be fun.

unless he follows

Wood’s career path

or Mathis’, or Howies, or Naps…..

but yes my bet is on him getting better
We can only thank God

he is not Mathis lol

only 2 catchers in MLB have 20 HRS the last 3 years

Napoli and this other guy whos pretty good in Atlanta

if guby says tough one more time

I am going to throw up

Fleet Pete

Strikes again.

That was Ball 4
The one that was called strike 2
My gawd I love this kid's wheels!

like a vanilla Usain Bolt!

Just wait until you see Trout.

Them two together will be a lllllot of fun!

Then we'll all be bitchin about our lack of power hitting in the outfield.
I won't lol

I love speed!

not Iron Mike

he will love all the speed forget that it doesn’t win games

Aybar grounded out to Aybar
Jepsen is doing a good job so far

nice, 1, 2, 3 inning for him

At least 1 run would be nice here
supercuts commercial

that roulette scene reminds me I wanted to ask if Regains got a haircut before he made the Kazmir trade.

ask Reagins what its like

to be Mikes mouthpiece while you are at it

it wasn't the travelocity commercial

where the gnome was on a spinning wheel with knives thrown at it?

let's just say that Reagins didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express that night
Need a run here for my Panther points
torii

flyout batflip kinda karmic asskick

Hunter looks tired and old
send him to Texas
its probably because hes tired and old.
Statistically

He’s still our best player.

he'd make a nice #6 or 7 hitter on a championship caliber club
15th in the AL in OPS

That’s pretty damn good.

The problem is that we’ve only got one guy like him right now.

if hunter were izturis

he’d say he was hurt and take a vacation

id rather have Quinlan
Maicer is as fragile as a newly discovered Egyptian mummy
That sure looked like a ball to me too
love the look on Irons Mikes face

he is really grinding like hes constipated

C'mon Sucksui, here's your big chance to shut all us haters up
jeeeeeezuzzzz

since when are the rays getting ranger k zone?

oh come on

if that was an Angels pitcher, Guby would say he was doing a good job painting the black

Trying to end the damn game lol
Weird Beard Time?
Don't worry

Mathis will save us in the bottom of the ninth.

no chance

Mike is pinch hit for him

I would hope so
I have a problem with it on several levels

it shows Mike has no confidence in him in the clutch

and what manager pinch hits for their every day catcher late in games?

What other manager would have Mathis

as there every day catcher?

Mike shouldn't have confidence in him

And he is there for his defense, it shouldn’t be an insult to be pinch-hit for if you are a defensive specialist

If he doesn't pinch hit for him...

we call a fan-strike and don’t spend anymore money on the Angels!

Oh wait...

I already did that a couple months ago

I like how Mike basically admits that mathis is completely useless on offense

and will pinch hit for him after he strikes out for the 1000th consecutive time .. too bad he keeps on giving him the start.

there's a skeleton in Mike's closet

and Mathis has pictures

At least Juanita couldn't GIDP
Not watching...

how does Rivera look at first base?

Not great. Not terrible.

Which is to say he looks the same as in LF.

I dont know why fans rip on Riveras defense

He has consistently put on better than average defense stats in LF and is way better than Abreu in the OF.

I see what you're saying.

It’s like when fans blame Scioscia for every mistake on the field, or every bad pitch, or every fail at the plate. We lose sight of the fact that he is the winningest and most successful manager in Halo history. So you’re right, we rip on Juan alot, because much like Sosh, we forget that sometimes Johnny Rivers is better than we give him credit for.

This isn't to say that Sosh doesn't piss me off,

Or do shit that makes me shake my head.

I take that back.

Sometimes Johnny Rivers looks terrible in LF!

ok

he made a pretty good play early in the game, scooping up a sharp grounder

Then he blew a tag on a pickoff that really should have been an out

F-ing commercials on Gameday?
Rodney time
I wouldn't know

Gameday is still showing an F-ing commercial

Stop talking about how well people have been pitching, it always results in them pitching terribly
I hate Rodney so much...never mind, he struck Upton out
just a little high...
Either I'm really, really drunk & have the DTs or

is Rodney actually wearing his hat straight???

I think you're really really drunk...lol
Nope, it is eber-so-slightly askew.
Sort of

It’s facing straight, but tilted vertically

torii reminded him he's an imposter

and he straightened it up a tad.

Hunter should do less talking and more hitting
playing the stupid comment race card are we?
I want to slap him every time I see him

and his wanna be gangsta hat

He DID have it straight at one point, but every time he wiped the sweat off his forehead, he moved it more askew
Nice job Callaspo
Good thing Rivera didn't have to stretch....
goddammit i am craving a lemon popsicle

all i got in the freezer is coconut and all 7-11 has is strawberry and i am CRAVING lemon popsicle … anyone know a place in south central i can get a lemon popsicle at 10 PM on a weeknight?

Funny...really funny
carl crawford interview on 830 was pretty funny.
it is linked

on the main page here ,,, but no lemon popsicle at that link

btw Rev

The Rangers, those crack smokes won again tonight. Must be good stuff

ralphs. or do they have those in SC?

… food for less then.

"Be-cause, YOU'RE the ONE!"

drives me batty

two out of the three commercials, this segment
i have muted the teevee for the season

because of one west bank.

This muting brought to you by Wells Fargo – where the tellers are smoking hot and flirtatious with the compliments

Weird Beard 1-2-3?????

WTF?

And Jepsen?

I’m buying a Lotto ticket after the game.

Butcher lied to him

and told him it was the 9th

It's actually pretty cool that they have video commercials on gameday.....
Not with my (lack of) bandwidth, it isn't.
If the Soth

wants to win this game, Napoli will hit for Mathis. If Mathis bats, we’ll know he has thrown in the towel.

Mike threw in the towel weeks ago

When he put Callaspo in the 3rd hole

your wish has come true
Trumbo and Conger both homered tonight in Salt Lake.

Both added a walk too.

Bring on the future.

Well this will be a quick inning lol
Napoli gonna pinch strikeout for mathis.
Mike likes to be his own batboy
No RISP, so Napoli will go yard here
I would Pitch hit for Mathis
extra dressing, please
for those Mike lovers

If you are going to PH for Mathis why not for Aybar? In late close games he sucks

Because we only have one good hitter on the bench
And not that many good hitters in the lineup really.
hey this is the team Mike put together

so blame him and Reagins, this team is less exciting that watching grass grow

They said something about changing course.

Or something. Things will get better. Right? Right?

Depends on the kind of grass

that Augustine stuff grows like a champ.

with who?
Brandon Wood of course!
Oh yeah, the other shortstop

How could I be so stupid

Another future Angels superstar.
That's the rumor.

Heard he hit like 50 HRs in AZ

dont worry

Iron Mike is looking forward to seeing his new stance. WTF?

That was the pitch...

…and he fouled it off.

yep thats baseball
Nice AB Naps
3 pitch K roxx0rZ!!!!
c'mon Bourjos Meredith
Quack-quack-quack-quack....
this guy is only throwing strikes
stayin within himself

and trusting his stuff

oh stop

you are starting to sound like Mike and Guby and thats scary

It's all about the mechanics. ;)
damn 2 gone already

i just took a pisss

wow that was deflating
team flat out stinks
well well well

we just got out angeled

Well that bit the big one
welcome to the big Petey!
You can put a dog turd over this one!
9 pitchs, all strikes 3K's
Big Gulp, eh? Welp, See ya later!
meanwhile bourjous looks like a pitcher who hasn't swung since college
kid has no chance

but Mike doesnt PH for him, why ask why?

Because the options there are Brandon Wood and Reggie Willits.
Wood is an expert

on stiking out on 3 pitches whats the difference?

christ i watched that entire turd of a game.
talk about not being intimidated by your competition
k3yerout Pete

good night…drive home safely!

I wanna see pete at 1

no reason for sosh not to try it, since its a different lineup every day.

i'd rather see willits at 1

bourjous is overmatched

and i cant stand reginald
Reggie Jackson?

is he avaliable

Well i'm watching Seinfeld and calling it a night.

Goodnight everybody, hopefully we get them tomorrow.

Jose Mota is a tool too

Maddon did not learn from Mike, he was with the Angels long before Iron Mike got there

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