Halos Heaven

or Ethridge, Melissa

Not much is expected of them

And as 29-31 year old minor league vets, they have no trade value. If they can help us out for the rest of the year great. If not, then go to someone else.

Trumbo could develop into a .250 hitting 30 homer guy at first base. That could have value to some team, but not so much to us, since when spring comes around we’ll have a .300 hitting 30 homer bat at the position.

RallyMonkey5 - July 5, 2010 reply

the point is that trumbo doesnt really have a future here

capitalize on his hot AAA start and get some value before it tanks. If you read between the lines of what the organization says, they dont see him as a legitimate contributer. He’s just another Low-Average-No-Walks guy with some pop. With Morales entrenched at first, there’s no spot for him. That’s exactly the type of prospect you trade for something that actually helps the club.

ihearhowie2.0 - July 5, 2010 reply

ihearyou

Rec’d

^ yes you got the point ^

exactly.

Trumbo was probably trade bait BEFORE we signed McAnulty. now, it’s set in stone.

Capitalize on his hot start, and get something of value

howiestheman - July 5, 2010 reply

No.

McAnulty is a journeyman. Trumbo has a better future, IMO.

wheres his future at IYO?

because it’s not at first even if his defense wasn’t horrid(which it is) and we have older players under contract to DH.

ihearhowie2.0 - July 5, 2010 reply

That wasn't the question asked

I think Trumbo has more upside than a journeyman like McAnulty, even if you flip Trumbo for a veteran in a trade as you suggest.

Does McAnulty have any brighter future than Trumbo in Anaheim? Hardly.

No but we cant get anything at all to improve the team for McAnulty....

while someone who is young like Trumbo could possibly be flipped for a Reliever or another middle infielder who could help out the team THIS year……

Trumbo realistically wont produce for this team in ANY year………he’s stuck where he is.

Seattle can get more for Lee from Texas

They could put Smoak in a deal plus throw in a higher rated pitching prospect than the Halo’s have at the upper ranks of the farm system.

Furthermore, I suspect Reagins is still “licking his wounds” after the fleecing he took at the hands of Tampa Bay with the Kaszmir trade.

mustard_man - July 5, 2010 reply

Fleecing?

We gave up a hitter who’s hitting .200 in AA ball, a redundant utility player in SRod and a AA pitching prospect (who I feel of all the guys was the one we should have kept). In return we got a MLB pitcher who helped up quite a bit down the stretch last year and even with his struggles this year is better than the Matt Palmer/Trevor Bell/SOS triumvirate that we would put out there as a 5th starter. I fail to see how that constitutes a fleecing when you compare it to what the Braves gave up for Teixeira or the Mariners gave up for Bedard? Heck, the Kazmir trade is still better than what the Yankees gave up for Vazquez.

Exactly

Just what I was going to post. Kazmir hasn’t pitched that poorly this year and pitched pretty well at the end of last year.

HungryHunter - July 5, 2010 reply

Not pitched that poorly..really?

Here’s his 2010 line thus far:

ERA: 5.67
K/9: 6.1
BB/9: 4.6
K/BB: 1.3
HR/9: 1.2
AVG: .271
WHIP: 1.56
BABIP: .299
FIP: 5.29
WAR: 0.1

You may consider Sean Rogriguez a utility player – and ultimately he may be, however he’s starting for the Rays and playing quite well. He has a WAR of 1.2 which is higher than Wood, Kendrick, Aybar, and Frandsen combined.

Kazmir stunk up the joint in the playoffs last year. This year he’s lost his slider and is a two-pitch pitcher right now. If the Halos traded Kazmir today, they’d get a fraction of what they gave up last season. In my book, that’s a fleecing.

mustard_man - July 5, 2010 reply

I agree with you MM, Kazmir has stunk- there's no arguing that

It was a fleecing.

On the other hand, WAR is overrated. Especially if one player is more valuable than the four Angels you listed.

and Kaz has pitched much better on the road

He and Saundo have generally sucked at home

Except that

Kazmir is giving us nothing this year while costing us a ton of money. Oh, and he’s signed for next season as well.

Basically we traded for a lousy player who will suck up financial resources that we could be using to improve the team elsewhere. Think Gary Matthews Jr.

Robviously - July 5, 2010 reply

This is what people overlook.

We took on a shitload of payroll and traded prospects for a once promising yet troubled pitcher. Whether or not the prospects pan out is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that Karmis is an expensive piece of shit that limits our payroll flexibility instead of crippling Tampa Bay’s.

snowhor - July 5, 2010 via mobile reply

It seems that we're debating only the level of "fleecing"

I agree that all those trades were bad.

mustard_man - July 5, 2010 reply

It was a fleecing and Kazmir sucks imho

Downing Rules - July 5, 2010 reply

We'd be lucky if we could get something for Trumbo.

More likely folks’ll be asking for Napoli, and Reagins will be listening. Trumbo, Bourjos and Conger are the only things of trade value at AAA at the moment, and I’d be sorely disappointed if they traded Conger — maybe the only true prospect at the upper levels with a real idea of what balls and strikes look like when the bat’s in his hands.

Agreeing with mustard_man at this point: we may be compromised in the GM dept. Reagins has overpaid so early and so often in trades and free agency, any rival GM would be silly not to shoot for the moon.

Not sure Trumbo has all the much trade value

Other than his HR numbers (which are inflated playing in SLC), he has a 69/22 Strikeout/Walk ratio and a .319 OBP (which isn’t some fluke as he has a career .320 OBP in the minors). So basically you have all the makings of a AAAA slugger who isn’t going to get hit for a high average, get on base enough or add enough defensive value to make more than the back end bench guy IF he can maintain his power against major league pitching, which is debatable.

Though to be fair, I’m not sure what you’re referring to in Reagins overpaying early in trades? The Teixeira trade looks pretty good and though Kazmir hasn’t completely worked out for what we hoped, no one we gave up in that trade would really be making an impact for our team.

Wasn't that what I said though?

That we would be “lucky” to get anything for Trumbo and other clubs will be asking for other players instead? I don’t think Trumbo projects as anything more than a Rob Deer type at the moment.

As far as Reagins goes — really? You just see the Kazmir trade as three unnecessary prospects surrendered? That $25M the club spilled out for a tired, semi-broken mule doesn’t mean much to you? The opportunity cost on Kazmir is higher than the value of trade chips, given how we might have done with an extra $10M or so a season.

And last I looked, Sean Rodriguez was putting up a better line than Howie Kendrick in limited ABs this season — and miles beyond Brandon Wood. He would have definitely been useful. He plays six positions, and just two weeks ago, our infield depth was looking mighty shallow.

Then there’s Alex Torres. If we had not traded him, he would be the best pitching prospect on the farm right now. He’d likely be at AAA, and a potential call-up. He’s at AA in the Rays’ very pitching-rich organization right now. He has a 2.40 ERA with 91 strikeouts over 82.1 IP. We don’t have a single pitching prospect with a line that good above Rancho.

But when I am thinking of overpaying, I'm not just thinking Kazmir.

I’m also thinking Fuentes and Rodney — both of whom look like $2-4M relievers to me. (FanGraphs is more ruthless, suggesting Fuentes has only been worth $1M over the course of his contract for us.)

How do you give a reliever $18M and two years when the guy is literally begging in the press to come to your club?

Then there’s letting value walk and mismanaging the roster, as in the cases of Oliver and O’Day, respectively. That’s every bit as much of an indication of not understanding value as overpaying: those were two deals that other clubs valued more than Reagins did.

(I also think the contract given to Bobby was one year too long, FWIW, but reasonable men can debate that.)

I agree with the Free Agency statement completely

If anywhere, Reagins has squander way too much FA money that could have been invested in either the draft or Latin America.

I guess we’re just disagreeing on a matter of degrees with Trumbo. I don’t see him even at a Rob Deer type and that a team would choose someone in our lower minors with higher upside than take on Trumbo.

As for the Kazmir trade, we’re just repeating what’s been debated before in the SRod posts. I think there would have been a shot that SRod plays instead of Wood (then again what about Frandsen?), but I don’t see him beating Howie out for a spot. Plus when healthy, I think Maicer gets the nod over SRod, hence the redundancy.

With Torres, I agree (i admitted as much that I wished we wouldn’t have traded him), but they’re AA numbers and Torres has historically struggled with his control. I guess we’ll just have to see if Torres is even up (let alone pitching effectively or as well as Kazmir) by the time that Kazmir’s contract has ended

Yep, we'll have to disagree on Sean Rodriguez.

Your argument largely hinges on his being a redundant spare part. But when we’re down both Aybar and Izturis, as we have been this year, he’s much more than a spare part.

As mustard_man suggests above, Sean Rodriguez has a greater WAR than any of Aybar, Kendrick, Wood or Frandsen. He’s also an everyday player now, and arguably, his upside is higher than any of the above. As a secondbaseman, he will have hit ~18 HRs over his first 600PAs in the Majors. It’s not a big leap to see S-Rod in two years as a player that can hit 25-30HRs from a defense-first position (where he also plays decent defense.)

Reagins doesn’t make that trade, and he has $25M more to play with, he has more depth, and he can trade more valuable names like Aybar or Kendrick this season w/o fear of substantial impact to our infield.

Injuries and Redundancy

While Macier’s injury issues this year aren’t completely unexpected, i doubt the team had in mind that Wood would be tanking so poorly or that Aybar would have injury problems when they made the trade. It’s a bit of post-hoc rationalization to have assumed that would be the case. SRod’s importance to the team (his lack of redundancy) was only established after the trade. It would have been a huge leap in logic to assume that what we have now is what the team thought they had when they made the trade. A similar assumption could have been made that Wood would be hitting .260 with 12 HR’s and Aybar again hitting over .300 and being completely healthy.

I think Aybar has only missed seven games...

If we are talking about trades

Reagins pulled off one great trade (Kotchman for Teixeira) and one trade that we cannot yet fully evaluate (the trade for Kazmir). At this point, it does not appear that we gave up much in talent. We did give up significant opportunity cost by taking on Kazmir’s contract. Last year, he was well worth it in the regular season. At the end of the last regular season, when Kazmir appeared to be our third most reliable starter — behind Lackey and Weaver — this seemed like a very good deal for us. Now, with Kazmir pitching terribly, the deal looks very bad because we are on the hook for $12M next season. If Kazmir continues to flame out, then it will be a bad deal, no matter what our prospects do for Tampa Bay. If, however, he pitches like he did in the second half of last season, we will all be very happy again.

All that said, the comment that other GMs should “shoot for the moon” with Reagins based on his poor performance in previous trades is unwarranted. He did a great job giving up almost noting to get Teixeira, and that was after the Braves had traded a ton to get him the previous season.

Brody - July 5, 2010 reply

Cabrera for Garland

A good trade that also netted us a draft pick when Jon Garland declined arbitration.

True

I forgot about that.

Brody - July 5, 2010 via mobile reply

It would be worth it to trade for Lee.

Nothing would piss the Mariners fans off more than the Angels taking Lee away from them. Jeff and Matthew would write reams of horror hit pieces about how horrible this trade was and that they did’nt get near enough for Lee once they recovered from the shock of it.

There is still a possibility that the Rangers ownership deal could continue to stall and they could miss out on dealing for Lee, and the Mariners end up getting a lesser deal from other interested teams than they had hoped for.

44FAN - July 5, 2010 reply

This is a more interesting prospect given that the Ms may consider dealing Lee within the division

Which seems crazy. The Twins have the prospects to get him…this should be interesting fodder until the trade deadline or until Lee is dealt.

One thing is crystal clear.

McAnulty should be platooning with Matsui at DH. Matsui should never see a start against a lefty starter if given an alternative.

Matsui:

LHP: .186 avg .216 obp .371 slg .587 ops
RHP: .300 avg .395 obp .439 slg .834 ops

McAnulty (minors ’10):

LHP: .367avg .416 obp .667 slg 1.083 ops
RHP: .333 avg .411 obp .583 slg .994 ops

Even projecting to Major League estimations, McAnulty’s line against lefties has him hitting about .280 with an OPS about 200pts better than Matsui against lefties.

Matsui was better against lefties as recently as last season

And doesn’t have that big a split for his career (.292/.376/.486 vs. .284/.348/.457). Though I think Scioscia has overused him, given his age & health, and sitting against lefties makes more sense than sitting against righties.

mattwelch - July 5, 2010 reply

I know his history, but he's just not the same hitter.

He looks awful bad against lefties right now. This is a place where we have to depart from the statistical archive and just see with our eyes. My eyes confirm what the splits say this season.

He still has isolated power when he connects, but he’s taking bad swings against southpaws, and it’s not worth the risk hoping a 37-yr-old with bad knees adjusts when we have better alternative in-house.

How bad is our system if we can't find a right-handed hitting DH who can mash lefties?

McAnulty's crap stats in the International League worry me...

And despite the HR last night, his 3Ks just make me think he’s another all or nothing type hitter. Basically, this chug-a-lug fatty embodies the exact opposite of Scioscia baseball. Everywhere I look on this team I see mediocre pitchers, aging players and fat-ass, free-swingers. What the hell happen to the Angels?

This organization doesn't trade catchers

Josh Paul was protected on the 40-man roster, never forget. And Trumbo doesn’t have much trade value, though I have apparently underrated his prospect-worthiness in the past.

mattwelch - July 5, 2010 reply

As have I...

Every time I think Trumbo’s reached his limit, he keeps growing, maturing and developing as player. At the current time, Trumbo has little value. His real value though, is in what he can be in 3+ years. His OBP is poor right now, but if nothing else, Trumbo has proven he’s a late bloomer, and the Angels would not have protected him on the 40 man if he potential wasn’t there. In 3 years he could have a .350 OBP and show Rivera type of power.

McAnulty does nothing to Trumbo’s trade value.

Halowood - July 5, 2010 reply

Haven't the Angels protected Ryan Budde on the 40 man??

If they have I don’t think them protecting Trumbo really says all that much

MH252525 - July 5, 2010 reply

Budde was selected by the Phillies in the Rule 5 Draft in 2006, but made his way back to the Angels.

He is currently on the 40 man though.

~MMP~ - July 5, 2010 reply

I remember...

The Phillies taking him in the rule 5 a few years back…but he came back obviously. So he hasn’t always been protected on the 40 man roster.

Angel Hawker - July 5, 2010 via mobile reply

Name me an organization that isn't 4 deep at catcher and I'll name you an org. that's in trouble...

Al la boston Red Sox. They thought V-Mart and Varitek would be enough. Now they are screwed with no good backup option and had to trade for Kevin Cash.

Who wouldn’t want a defensively capable catcher playing in AAA ready for a callup at any time? This will probably be his final year with the Angels though. Conger needs to be protected after this year.

Halowood - July 5, 2010 reply

Angels would not have protected him on the 40 man if he potential wasn’t there.

This assumes the Angels have accurately valued his potential. It’s possible he develops into something useful, although even the most optimistic of projections don’t see him as anything more than a platoon DH or late inning pinch hitter (a la Shawn Wooten, except without the ability to catch). If the Angels can include him in a trade for anything of value, I would be fine with it.

Gorbachav5 - July 5, 2010 reply

BTW a belated FU to Josh Paul

for 2005 .

Ed@northridge - July 5, 2010 reply

Because that play was Josh Paul's fault?!?!?

Now that’s just stupid.

It's True, not stupid.

Paul’s the one who was stupid. All Paul had to do was apply the tag or throw to first, or at the very least…hold onto the ball until the ump makes a call. Instead, he rolled the ball back up to the mound. It was his fault, 100%, dumb call by Eddings or not, because the call wouldn’t have mattered if Paul had done what he was supposed to do.

jjackflash - July 5, 2010 reply

but he caught the ball

strike three was called. He did his job.

R I G H T

And if I recall correctly, there was no one at first to throw to, since Eddings’ strike three call had sent everyone towards the dugout.

Please, do not lessen the evilness of AJ’s and Eddings’ chicken-shittiness in these pages. Paul was an innocent victim along with the rest of the Angels and their fans.

rspencer - July 6, 2010 reply

Don not trade Crouger

and aldridge is a big boy and by big i mean fat

DAD OF VLAD - July 5, 2010 reply

opps

make that McAnulty

DAD OF VLAD - July 5, 2010 reply

No, Aldridge is fat too...

You got it right the first time.

I'd like to see Soth put out a Halo's Big Boy team one day

Halo’s Big Boy team

P: SOS or Palmer
C: Wilson
1st: Naps
3rd: Q
CF: Aldridge
LF: JR
RF: Abreu
DH: McNuts

That just leaves SS and 2nd, but close enough

good lord...

please, no.

Well, it wouldn't be "Sothball"

but it would be Soth-like…
Then they could have a lasagna munch-off after the game (Soth would clean house, or “clean pan”, maybe)

I so want to see this lineup actually play.

~MMP~ - July 5, 2010 reply

And the pregame question could be

“Will the Halo’s steal a base today?”

Betancourt and Belliard would "fill out" that lineup nicely

And I’m sure we could acquire them cheaply.

Gorbachav5 - July 5, 2010 reply

There you go

Thanks for completing the Big Boy team beautifully

"Do not trade Conger"?

so what the shit do we do with Mathis and Napoli?

SenorChuckles - July 5, 2010 reply

trade mathis

nap DH for life

DAD OF VLAD - July 5, 2010 reply

We both know Soth <3s Jeffrey.

SenorChuckles - July 5, 2010 reply

Sir Paul FTW

As someone with the same odd last name as McAnulty, I was thrilled to see him make it back to the big leagues...

only so that i could hopefully secure an official McAnulty jersey some day. He probably won’t be around long enough to make that happen, but it would be cool.
I’m still trying to get in touch with him to see where our family trees cross.

Chone's Chonies - July 5, 2010 reply

Damn is McAnulty

pregnant?

Angels_48 - July 5, 2010 reply

I found a picture of McAnulty from spring training

RexTookMyStash - July 5, 2010 reply

McNuts is not "fat"

He is “geographically-challenged”.

Yep

The guy has his own zip code…

mustard_man - July 6, 2010 reply

I don't see any reason why not to deal Trumbo

He has absolutely no future in this organization. He’s blocked at every position he could be valuable.

ryanfea - July 5, 2010 reply

And by every position you mean 1B and DH since he offers such positional versatility

3rd position

bench

OH AND CAN I JUST GET A "HELL YEAH"

in support of getting jersey number 41 out on the field again instead of being reverently held aside (as Chuck Finley’s and Tim Salmon’s jersey numbers still are)…

HELL YEAH!

ryanfea - July 5, 2010 reply

arent you banned dude?

dr-awkward - July 5, 2010 reply

IMO
that joke got old a long time ago.

phoenix15 - July 5, 2010 reply

Jokes like that never get old.

And I hear we might be getting Curtis Granderson.

snowhor - July 5, 2010 via mobile reply

9

Imposter

ryanfea - July 5, 2010 reply

Can I have a dollar?

Funke5ive - July 5, 2010 reply

What did Quentin do?

red floyd - July 6, 2010 reply

go sump on yourself

spc7 - July 8, 2010 reply

Apparantly, 41 is only held for fat -asses and ugly Texans...

and dudes who get their ass kicked by chan ho park.