Halos Heaven

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7042721

Same as last night: sick to my stomach.

snowhor - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

I still don't think it's right to rip the guy we all want to see fo into the HOF as Angel.

Vlad should be considered family. Would we trash Lazy if he wasn’t to GA to do this to us when we played the dodgers last week.

snowhor - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

I would feel like crap.

But would have enough self-respect and fortitude to give the former MVP his due, and not pull the petulant sissy footstomping number that’s overtaking the Angels fanbase. It was squalid and pathetic listening to Jeff Biggs lay into Vlad for ten minutes at a stretch for not taking a one year five mil contract in Anaheim in the offseason. Now everyone is swapping spit like horny eight graders in a closet trying to pass that sour meme around.

Lose with dignity, halo fans. Vlad got us to the postseason several seasons, and there were months he carried this team like a wounded child down the stretch. He’s one of the highlights in the best epoch in Angels history.

Turks Teeth - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

I had this awesome day last October 11th. Vlad was mostly responsible.

So when people feel like wiping their feet on him just remember this game. The day the Halos got rid of the other monkey on their collective backs.

Nobody seems to be talking about the fact that Vlad knows what he is worth.

His #’s this season must be worth what? , . . 15 million?

Depending on how much the market values a win above replaement in November

It would be between $20 and $25 million if he continued at his current pace. In that case he would be a smart man to decline the $9 million mutual option on his current deal.

Last year

he made $12 million, but was probably only worth 5, so call it a wash.

Exactly how I felt

while listening to Jeff Biggs last night and I’m surprised no one mentioned Vlad’s weight loss before the 2010 season.

I respect Vlad for his body of work and will give him all the praise he deserves when he retires from being an active ballplayer. It pained me to see that home run crushed over the CF wall (again) but it doesn’t change the fact it helped Texas win.

Like what one of the callers said last night: time to give him the Barry Bonds treatment. Walk him, bean him just don’t give him the chance to drive in runs via doubles or HRs tonight

blast21dave - July 1, 2010 reply

i agree snowhor

i always want the angels to win, especially against division rivals. Vlad was my favorite angels player. So, I will always root for Vlad but I will always root for Angels to win first. Having said that, this is my recollection of last year:

1) Vlad wasn’t lazy. He was hurt/injured most of the season. Did you guys see the way he hobbled around base paths? His numbers wasn’t bad considering the amount of games he played and he did well/decent in the playoffs.

1.1) This is purely gut feeling. I don’t think Vlad is the type to be lazy, espcially in the last year of his contract. Maybe I am wrong but he seems like decent-hard working-family guy, even though he makes gazillions.

2) Angels signed Matsui almost immediately after FA started. I think that means Angels wanted Matsui more than Vlad even if Vlad would have agreed to same terms. I remember listening to KLAA and some speculate that Vlad never even received an offer.

3) I haven’t checked the stats but does Matsui tear it up every post season? Or was it just last year? It annoys me when people say Matsui = postseason. Why can’t he do what he does in postseason now? I don’t understand the logic. Maybe Matusi should piss off or try harder now.

That said, I hope Matsui turns around and prove me wrong because I want Angels to win every single f&^&in game.

dan73962 - July 1, 2010 reply

I have a buddy

in the Angels FO who at the time basically told me that Vlad was asking for a boatload of money (I think I remember him saying something about $15 million per year) and too many years then what the Angels thought he was worth.

its your typical free agent scenario, a player who has done great things for an organization but recently declining wants what he thinks he’s owed for not only what he will do, but also for what he’s done. Only the FO doesn’t see it that way since they want value for their money, they aren’t going to pay extra for nostalgic reasons.

after the past 2 seasons Vlad essentially got what everyone thought he was worth, the only problem was he wasn’t willing to take that until it became clear to him that was the best he was going to do. at that point the Halos had moved on to Matsui, who seemed like a bargain considering his performance in the WS.

Vlad was our MVP, and for that I’ll always cheer for him. I just hope when he hits HRs against us that we still end up on top. for instance, Tuesdays game was the perfect scenario. he hits a HR and the Angels still win. last night’s game, not so much.

Matsui is a .312/391/541 postseason hitter

With 10 bombs and 39 RBI over 5 playoffs. As much as I like Vlad, he’s never been anywhere near that good in October. If he was, we’d have a few more AL Pennants or WS Rings.

Look, I wanted Vlad back too, but when I heard we signed Matsui, I figured it would be a wash in the end or close to one anyway. So did most other fans and analysts. The Rangers only took a chance because of his numbers in Arlington. He could just as easily have ended up on the White Sox or the bench of some NL club and nobody would care all that much. It sucks the Rangers FO guessed better than ours, but you can’t always win.

Commander_Nate - July 1, 2010 reply

Sorry, SIX playoffs

Here’s the link

Commander_Nate - July 1, 2010 reply

The fuckin' LA Times

said, the Angels should consider a B. Wood for Kerry Wood trade, shit’s unbelievably stupid.

I'm with you, WiHa

Where was Vlad’s fire and willingness to work last year? Fact is, it sure looks like he got lazy at the end of his deal. And then as soon as he hits the FA market, he decides to get serious, lose weight, get into shape and start killing the ball again?!

Piss off, Vlad.

One word----SHAQ

lazy when he was with the lakers the last two years, and then goes to another team, slims down and actually tries to dominate. Same with Vlad

Sinatrasratpack - July 1, 2010 reply

Wow, now you are calling Vlad lazy and fat? Where do you guys come up with this crap?

I’ll remind those of you with miniscule memories: He was INJURED. When he got better, he hit over .350 in the PS.
Go take your revisionistic ignorance, put in the toilet, then FLUSH.

The biggest problem I had with Vlad last year was how much he played while injured.

He was terrible and kept the team from winning by having the middle of the batting order not producing what was needed. Not all the time but enough where it was glaringly obvious he was not worth signing this year to some big contract.

44FAN - July 1, 2010 reply

And allow me to remind those of you living with gauze covered glasses and an inabiilty to read...

Vlad is on pace to play in the same number of games and have the same number of plate appearances as he had every year as a Halo except 2009. So we can presume comparable health for those other years. And yet…

Vlad’s run production deteriorated every year after his first year with the Halos.
Vlad’s HR production deteriorated every year after his first year with the Halos.
Vlad’s SLG production deteriorated every year after his first year with the Halos.
Vlad’s OPS production deteriorated every year after his first year with the Halos.
Vlad’s total base count deteriorated practically every year after his first year with the Halos.
His hit totals had been plummeting since 2006.
His doubles had been plummeting since 2006.
His BBs had been plummeting since 2006.
His On Base percentage had been plummeting since 2007.
His K rate was climbing until 2009.
His GIDP rate was climbing until 2009.

Yet we loved him. He was lovable. He was joyous, He was Legend. We excused his decline as age, poor health. inevitable. He was broken down. Done. Gone. We gladly let him take the money and we celebrated his increasingly rarer moments of glory.

But guess what? He was not done. He was far from done. Except for 2009, he had it in him all along. Ego and pride are apparently greater motivators than money (as hinted at even by Sosh today in a radio interview) and in 2010 Vlad is on track to return to his glory days of Montreal. We got ‘Montreal’ in 2004, then we got the worst of his career while he he still had ‘Montreal’ within him. He didn’t give us ‘Montreal’ in 2005, or 2006, or 2007, or 2008, and certainly not 2009. He was happy, with no ego or pride at stake. Complacency, perhaps? I don’t know. But I do know that he is giving Texas his ‘Montreal’ now, in 2010.

So forgive the bitterness as we watch The Destroyer destroy our team. Since Vlad is apparently bitter at us, we can be bitter at him. And I think the math supports our position over his. Those are REAL numbers that do NOT flush away. They are, in fact, backing up and overflowing the toilet and messing up our entire house.

Stirrups - July 1, 2010 reply

I love reasoned, rational responses from intelligent people

Stirrups you do this quite frequently, so thank you.

linkbruin - July 2, 2010 reply

not calling him lazy and fat

Just that when he goes to a new team he gets healthy, and seems motivated

Sinatrasratpack - July 2, 2010 reply

Wouldn't that be about a bitch...

Vlad wins world series with Texas, signs a big extension and goes into the HOF Nolan Ryan style with a goddamn Rangers hat on instead of a Halo.

Monkeyspanked - July 1, 2010 reply

don’t you ever put this scenario down on paper (or electronically?? f’n computers) again!!!

this scenario cannot and will not happen!!!!

THANK YOU

that’s what i want to know. like i said in the recap thread, where was his fire and drive the last two years, when he desperately wanted to tear his chest muscles in the outfield and looked like 88 WS kirk gibson while hitting singles like ichiro suzuki in the playoffs? i’m happy for the man and i can’t wait until he’s enshrined as an expo, angel, ranger, whatever, i don’t care. he was a great asset and an important piece of Angels history.

but it galls me that he’s obviously out to prove something now that the paycheck isn’t as big. you work harder when you’re paid LESS?

Kernel - July 1, 2010 reply

I think he's just in a race against age and time.

If he’s out to prove something, it’s not a vendetta. That just doesn’t fit the Vlad we all know and love. Now people are accusing him of showboating when he is doing the exact same things he used to do when he hit homers for US. I KNOW it’s emotional for everyone, me included, but my GOD, you gotta just sit back and marvel at the player that is Vladimir Guerrero. Didn’t we all always say he was one of those rare, special players??? Now he proves once again that we were right about him all those years and people wanna find excuses to hate him, when the truth is we’re all just wishing he was still here on our team.

firebird81 - July 1, 2010 reply

Plus it was the Angels who didn't want him. He wanted to stay.

And they should have kept him. This is all on Tony.

Monkeyspanked - July 1, 2010 reply

He wanted a 2 year deal + time in the outfield

And he wouldn’t budge from that insistence until later in the off season

Epic Dean - July 1, 2010 reply

Plus

Anybody who has observed the Angels in the Stoneman/Moreno/Reagins era knows that they don’t dick around negotiating. They move on to Plan B and never look back.

Yes and that was a mistake in dealing with the guy who was the face of our franchise for six years.

snowhor - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

revisionism

So they should have given him a multi-year deal and agreed to let him play the outfield, based on what he did in 2008 and 2009? It was not a mistake. It was a well-reasoned and reasonable decision that didn’t work out. An example of a mistake is bestowing a $50+ million dollar contract on a career 4th outfielder with a career batting average below .250 based upon one flukish season in a hitters’ park and one play that made ESPN’s year-end highlight reel.

You must mean Marlon Byrd, right?

No, they should have offered what they offered Matsui and make Vlad turn it down before moving on.

There certainly was a rationale for signing Matsui over Vlad. I’ve never disagreed with that.

But for what Vlad was to the franchise, they should have offered a one year deal to see if hr could stay healthy. If he accepted and then couldn’t stay healthy, Napoli and Abreu were right there to take over DH duties.

snowhor - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

Honestly

I have no idea what, if anything, they offered him. I was under the impression that they broached the idea of a one-year deal (before they inked Matsui) and Vlad said no, thanks, believing at the time that someone would give him a multi-year deal. The Angels then moved on, not wanting to lose other opportunities. I could be mistaken. I think the only people who know the truth are the folks in the front office and Vlad’s agent.

like I said in an above comment

my buddy works in the halos FO and pretty much told me that Vlad wanted more money and more years then the Angels were willing to offer. I don’t remember the exact number per year he mentioned, but it was at least as much as he was making.

I wonder what would have been said on this site if we had resigned him to a 3 year, $35 million contract. I’m assuming most people would not have been pleased.

who is LeBron?

I’ve been on all the sports websites this morning and haven’t seen a thing about this guy. what sport does he play?

Lacrosse?

Because this isn't ESPN?

red floyd - July 1, 2010 reply

I miss Vlad, and you can't tell me to shut up.

I know it’s been said a zillion times and some people are tired of hearing it, but it’s like getting dumped. It’s taking a long time to get over him, and seeing him again just makes it more difficult. Seeing him and comparing what he is doing to what Matsui is doing makes it almost impossible. I don’t care about what ballpark he’s playing in, if he lost weight, if he’s out to prove something after his FA paycut, blah blah blah. Those are all ways of just trying to mask the fear that the Angels FO screwed up on this one.

BTW, most players slim down and play hard in the LAST year of a contract, not the first year of a new, short contract, for less money. So, I don’t understand what some of you are accusing him of. Vlad has never shown any signs of not playing as hard as he could. He’s no Manny, and I resent the comments that imply such. It is more likely that Vlad is just plain healthier now.

Matsui has all the personality of a tree stump. Has anyone ever asked him if he even LIKES baseball?

"Has anyone ever asked him if he even LIKES baseball?"

I think you are mixing up Matsui and Adam Dunn here.

~MMP~ - July 1, 2010 reply

Oh good! Let's go get him!

Maybe we can compile a whole roster of guys who hate baseball. Who else would be on that team?

GA???

No one told you to shut up

or at least not me.

Vlad is a great player, I have nothing against him, but he just helped beat my favorite team. I don’t care who he is, if he helps beat the Angels he can piss off.

And until he wears an Angels cap again he can continue to piss off.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7042721

!

That was last year.

And I appreciated it then just as much as I appreciate it today, but that doesn’t change the way I feel.

As an Angels fan, my goal is to see the Angels win the World Series, Guerrero’s goal is to for the Rangers to win the World Series. That is in direct conflict with my goal, so he can piss off. Just like Lackey, Figgins, Edmonds, Glaus, or anyone else who is not helping the Angels try to win it all. Doesn’t mean I don’t like or respect them, just means I hope they all finish second.

How about Schoeneweis?

Can Scott Schoeneweis piss off?

How is he different?

His last name is spelled differently for starters

Just messin with ya

BTW, are you in Wisconsin?

I was just there, in Hayward. Beautiful State. I got to see bald eagles in the wild. I was amazed.

Yes I am.

Southwest part of the state.

During the spring and fall, the you can see the bald eagles get fish from under the broken ice on the Mississippi River. That’s pretty cool.

That is really cool.

Not too cool if your car is parked below where they eat.

Fish remain on the windshield are kinda gross.

sothball - July 1, 2010 reply

I can't remember if you live in SoCal.

There are bald eagles in the Lake Arrowhead area, sometime pretty close to the village. The annual eagle count around Christmas came up with 23 this year; birdwatchers do this one day each year, usually Christmas Day. I’d guess there are more over by Big Bear.

I didn't know we had them in Cali.

I’ve seen a golden eagle at our lake here in Santa Barbara (Cachuma Lake). So, there are only 23 in the State? Wow. There must be many more in WI because I saw 3 in as many days: one baby flying with its parent, then another big one on a rock off the side of the interstate.

I also saw a condor once in our mountains. It had wandered beyond its sanctuary zone, and there were signs telling people to report it if you saw it.

I’ve also seen pigeons at Angel Stadium (to keep it relevant to HH).

Completely OT

but I love Cachuma! We just spent a week there in May. I caught a BIG, BIG fish.
We had hawks circling over the RV while we set up, and they pooped all over the campsite.
Very nice place.

raskul - July 1, 2010 reply

I saw a grackle.

Fred Fredrix - July 1, 2010 reply

Used to go to Cachuma as a kid.

Drive by it now on the way to the casino (Mrs. red floyd loves the slots).

red floyd - July 2, 2010 reply

No, there are at least 23 bald eagles at Lake Arrowhead this year.

Lots more elsewhere.

Last year there was one just outside of Seattle that liked to sit on this thingie, (an art installation maybe?) in one of the lakes, beside the floating bridge that goes into Seattle from the east. Every time we’d visit and go into the city we’d see him.

Well you're entitled to your opinion

I just think it’s a little abrasive considering all the good memories I have of Vlad and what he did for the team.

Please don't get me wrong...

I like Vlad as much as the next person, and wish nothing but the best for him. And as I wrote, I appreciate everything he’s done for the organization, but my allegiance is to the Angels first.

WiHi

You sound like robocop and his 4th prime directive.

Do not act against any senior executives at OCP.

clover_black - July 1, 2010 reply

"reagins... YOU'RE FIREEEEEEEEEEEEEED"

(falls out window)

clover_black - July 1, 2010 reply

Some HHers were getting huffy last night

saying that it’s redundant for those of us who still miss Vlad to keep expressing it.

It's more than that. It's the classless attitude many are taking in regard to Vlad.

Someone asked the other day if I had any ill will towards Reggie Bush because of the sanctions against SC. My response was simple: no, we don’t turn on our own.

And that’s exactly how I feel about Vlad. In my book, he’s still family, just playing for another team right now. We can discuss all we want about his home/road splits, what his performance may have been had he stayed and potential health issues, but I won’t partake in or silently watch others trash the character of a member of our family.

snowhor - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

You are taking this WAY too personal

Vlad is not family, he’s a professional athlete who gets paid to play a sport. Family is someone who I care for and shows the same towards me. Vlad could care less what I think.

And I haven’t trashed his character. I can not root for someone who is trying to beat my favorite team. If you’re having a hard time understanding that, I’m sorry, but just like Vlad…I don’t care.

Boom. Headshot.

I’m sorry, but just like Vlad…I don’t care.

Boom. Headshot.

I’m sorry, but just like Vlad…I don’t care.

Boom. Headshot.

I’m sorry, but just like Vlad…I don’t care.

and apparently it was good enough to post 3 times.

….my bad.

If Vlad didn't care about what we thought of him, why did you write that e appears to be on a mission to prove us wrong?

snowhor - July 1, 2010 via mobile reply

I didn't write "us"

I wrote “Angels”. If you follow my writing or comments I never say “us” or “we” when writing about the Angels. I’m not part of the team, so I refer to them as “the Angels”, “the team”, or “the club”.

And I believe he wants to prove them (the Angels organization) wrong for not re-signing him.

Admit it, if we were talking about Juan Pierre, you'd agree.

snowhor - July 2, 2010 via mobile reply

Hey now, don't be trashin' Juan!

I usually agree with most of the things you write, just this time we have a different opinion. No big deal, that’s what makes coming here so much fun.

WiHaloFan - July 2, 2010 reply

They are just having a hard time coming to grips with what a huge blunder our DH shituation is.

Yeah, lets toe the FO line and tell Vlad to screw off.

Vlad was becoming a FA, which would mean if he gave 2 shits about a pay day, 2009 would have been his killer year. Its just a HOF player being a HOF player… if he’s sticking it to the angels, which I highly doubt (can’t help but hit those pile of shit pitches out of the park), its refreshing to see some emotion in baseball.

clover_black - July 1, 2010 reply

Our most emotional player thus far

is Frandsen, our third string third baseman. Torii’s even showing less fire this year.

after the imposters comment I think Torii was told to lay low for a while

Voted for the LAT, simply because I live in LA County, and I don't get the Register up here.

red floyd - July 1, 2010 reply

I hate Scott Kazmir.

UpStream15 - July 1, 2010 reply

caa we trade him for Cliff Lee?

can i have a dollar?

SCHalo - July 1, 2010 reply

* can

SCHalo - July 1, 2010 reply

can I haz '07 Kazmir?

Or even 09 Kaz.

He didn’t get a lot of run support but he seemed pretty good last year.

check the #'s, he had a good month, otherwise utter crap.

We got him late in the year, didn't we? So we got his one good month.

That Boots Poffenberger wiki is rad

Higz - July 1, 2010 reply

Quite a wild man.

I’m not sure which is the most humorous…the breakfast of champions, his response to be followed, or appearing on Marine Corps recruitment posters.

sothball - July 1, 2010 reply

yes

i would say trade kazmir n bourjus for cliff lee

Drizzy23 - July 1, 2010 reply

Nay.

Seattle wants young bats, best believe that IF a deal does go down we’ll see Conger and/or Trumbo gone with a one more player (Kazmir/Karmis or pitching prospect).

excuse me it's, Karmis

No way, we would need to include Quinlan, and that's just too much.

~MMP~ - July 1, 2010 reply

Last night hurt me as much as anyone

But be reasonable. All this stuff about Vlad getting lazy last year or being really pumped to play for the Rangers in the off-season is just anecdotal garbage. If you read the reports during Spring Training, every goddamn player shows up on the first day of camp “in the best shape of his life.” They all either lose weight by working out, or put on weight by working out, and sometimes they are reported as having done both! There’s laser eye surgery, unusual conditioning routines, and of course the media loves story lines like some player “having something to prove.” But they almost always come back as the same guys they always were. Meanwhile, these facts remain:

1. Players have good seasons and bad seasons, but the reasons aren’t usually identifiable. Almost all major-league players are extremely hard-working guys who have got to where they are by attaining an uncommonly consistent level of hard work. You could probably have written a story about how hard Guerrero works to get in shape at any point in the last five years. I know that I’ve read more than a few.

2. Players get old. Guerrero is 35, well past his prime. He has chronic knee issues. He’s lost the ability to play the field. His offensive numbers were declining every season. He doesn’t walk enough to justify keeping his bat in the lineup once his batting average and power start to slip, and they were both definitely slipping. Almost no one thought he was worth a roster spot, even GMs whom I believe are more astute than Tony Reagins.

3. You have to take gambles in baseball, then live with the results. As I said, how a certain player will perform in any given season is pretty much unpredictable. Did anyone expect Mark Teixeira to be hitting .231 in July? Or Corey Hart to be slugging .571? No, probably no one expected it. But backing away from committing multiple years and an outfield position to an apparently declining slugger in order to cut a bargain with a more well-rounded DH is perfectly justifiable. The Matsui move was not criticized by anyone without a sentimental attachment to Vlad.

The season isn’t quite half over year, but for the time being, the Angels appear to have gambled and lost. There are still lingering questions with Guerrero that might make this whole discussion irrelevant in September: Can he keep it up? Can he stay healthy? Can he close the huge gap in his home/road splits? These are the concerns that steered every other club away from him in the off-season. Ultimately, however, we’re talking about a Hall of Fame player who has had a remarkable and unusual career. Anything is possible with him.

At the very least, the Angels have the consolation that they made what appeared to be the best move. The Rangers acquired Guerrero for what appeared to be a very stupid reason: he hits well in Texas. Well, sure, everyone hits really well in Texas. They had about a 200 PA sample to work with, making it even more stupid. But Jon Daniels may have won the lottery, while Tony Reagins lost out on a very carefully considered business decision. Does anyone really deserve a tip of the hat or a wag of the finger in this case?

No matter what happens, swapping Guerrero for Matsui was far from the worst choice the Angels have made recently, let alone in the last off-season. If the Angels fall short in the division race this season, they should feel more remorse over the guys they’re still paying for (Kazmir, Fuentes, GMJ, Wood) than whatever Vladimir Guerrero did in Texas.

Ow, My Brain

Too much logic and reason here (not to mention, truth) for a lot of folks. I appreciate it, though. Rec’d.

Well put.

thetooth - July 1, 2010 reply

Thank you, Sweet Sanity

yeswecan - July 1, 2010 reply

This, exactly.

~MMP~ - July 1, 2010 reply

Thank you sir,

you said it better than I could have.

I’m still better looking though.

That is not at all true that every player shows up to spring training in the best of shape of his life.

Plenty of players are recovering from off season surgery or nursing an injury they did not want to have surgery for in fear of losing time. Cliff Lee for instance missed the first month of the season with injury. Same for Kazmir.

44FAN - July 1, 2010 reply

Just hyperbole

The “best shape of his life” thing is an annoying cliche. Someone at Fangraphs actually had the idea to try to document it this year: here.

I get hyper in the morning when drinking coffee and reading WiHaloFan's editorial comments.

44FAN - July 1, 2010 reply

But...but...Vlad is family!

Reagins messed up and we need to fire that guy. Now Vlad is going to win the World Series with the Rangers and wear their hat into the HOF

and don’t tell me to calm down! rabble rabble rabble.

blochead - July 1, 2010 reply

Now this is

the pause that refreshes my mind. Thanks

blast21dave - July 1, 2010 reply

Absolutely perfect post.

Rock-solid logic paired with your eloquent writing are one of the reasons I have not completely embraced Neo-Luddism.

Fan Since 1981 - July 1, 2010 reply

Anyone think there is a possibility of Dunn and Capps

Not sure what we would have to give up but Dunn for all the reasons previously stated but I wonder if the trade can be expanded to include Capps?

Who would we have to give up?

SoCalWine - July 1, 2010 reply

Wait, let me get this straight...

The Rangers….

1. have a manager that has recently admitted to being a cocaine user
2. have an “All-star” outfielder who is a recovering drug addict
3. have a pitcher who is invloved in human traffic charges in the Dominican Republic
4. are basically bankrupt and getting “stimulus” money from MLB?

That’s a hell of an organization they got going there. Bud Selig should be proud.

3rd Echelon - July 1, 2010 reply

False

They have two pitchers who were involved in human traffic charges in the Dominican Republic.