Top free agent Carl Crawford has signed with the Boston Red Sox for seven years, $142 million, leaving the Angels with plenty of money to... uhh... yeah, well, looks like Scott Boras has held back Adrian Beltre long enough to get top dollar from Arte Moreno. The media conventional wisdom was tilting so heavily in favor of the Angels signing Crawford that earlier this afternoon it seemed that a Los Angeles of Anaheim signing was a fait accompli. Well, nyet to that, Frenchy.
Now Boras holds the cards if the Angels want top-tier talent as Cliff Lee (whose agent Darek Braunecker has already left the winter meetings) and Beltre wait with a deep gap of quality between them and the next available free agents. Tony Reagins has to be rooting for a Lee signing by the Yankees now, whose reported dollar amount offer to Cliff Lee was less than the reported $142 million total to Crawford, although at 6 years, $140 million, it pays the lefthander more per year. Ahhh... see how Boston tweaks their rivals yet again.
Just as I worried aloud earlier today on SBNLA, a post-2006-esque empty-handed-budget-consciousness has left the organization empty handed. The expulsion of Gamblin' Eddie Bane as the organization's Minor League chief now seems perfectly clear: This is a conservative outfit that doesn't take chances or appreciate what a wager might pay off. I guess we will never see Dennis Kuhl or John Carpino drop a green chip on the pass line and ask the baseball gods to pass them the dice.
0 recs | 591 comments
Boras isn't Lee's agent Rev
Epic Dean - December 8, 2010
yup, pretty sure it is Braunecker
toonsterwu - December 8, 2010
Heyman has to be taking kickbacks from Braunecker at this point.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
That wasn't his point
Boras uses other agents’ clients as pawns just as well as he does his own.
Seraph - December 8, 2010
yes
thanks for pointing out the murkiness of the sentence (I had to blast this one out pretty fast, went back and added that last paragraph), I altered it for clarity. Appreciate the pointers.
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
Way way way....
overpaid. Glad it’s not us shelling out that money over seven years. 3B for the Angels is a much bigger hole than left field. This could be a blessing.
Doctor Wu - December 8, 2010
Hmm... in years past, I'd agree, but...
it’s time for the Halos to step up and start paying out like a top-tier team.
“If you can’t party with the big boys … don’t show up!!!” – Andrew Dice Clay
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
We can sugar coat it, but...
…if the Yankees end up with Lee, they can start the ALCS in April. Sure, they overpaid, maybe by a lot, but you can just go down to the store and get another “almost as good” player for a slightly lower price.
I don’t blame Reagins or Arte. The Yankees and Sox are willing to spend money that others aren’t willing to spend. I probably wouldn’t be willing to spend that if I were Arte.
But this move was completely obvious. After the Werth overspend, the Sox were really the only team in the market for Crawford, regardless of what people decided to report.
Line ’em up, hope to win the West, and see what kind of luck we can get in a short series.
LA Seitz - December 8, 2010
Crawford lucked out with this FA pool
(Good to see you’re still around, Seitz!)
yeswecan - December 9, 2010
Three days ago many of us were willing to walk away from CCrawford.
OK.
Now, let’s move on like we were willing to do three days ago.
wumbug - December 8, 2010
Apparently we offered $108million
No word on the years
Link
Epic Dean - December 8, 2010
I'm guessing the offer was 6/$108MM or 5 + an option......$18MM/year.
Perfectly reasonable considering Torii’s contract.
I wouldn’t have offered more.
Great! Walk away…..Move on.
wumbug - December 8, 2010
Correct
It would be great to have Crawford, but $142 is way too much for him.
If Beltre can be signed for something reasonable, great. If not, work some magic in the trade market.
HuskerHalo - December 8, 2010
+1
and magic comes in many forms—think 2010 Giants and 2002 Halos
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
If we can't sign anyone...
this could be a perfect time to extend Weaver and/or Morales
angelsownredsux - December 9, 2010
I also agree but
it seems the FO is frugal for the type A big money free agents and then go out and over spend for slugs aka Rodney, GMJ, et al. That’s what I don’t get.
Halo84653 - December 9, 2010
That was probably
Before the Werth deal also…
TheAntiSox - December 8, 2010
Not that that isn't reasonable...
but if we were serious about getting him we should have known that less than 7 years isn’t gonna cut it considering Werth’s deal.
So yeah, we never had a chance if we weren’t willing to go 7.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
This team...
Continually shoots themselves in the foot!! When are WE, yes WE, Going to figure out this free agency thingie and pull the trigger on a very good quality player and be the force everyone has come to acknowledge that we are, or were? im kinda really pissed now!
im4kiss - December 8, 2010
What’s
your definition of a good quality player?
phoenix15 - December 8, 2010
It is..
Someone that will make an impact on a team, Maybe like a Crawford, or a Tex, or maybe now even Beltre, who i know sucked in Seattle after having a great final season in Los Angeles, but tell me if we are any better now, than we were on October 1st?
im4kiss - December 8, 2010
Yes
Kendry
BruinHalo - December 8, 2010
You weren't an Angel fan in the 80's or 90's I guess...
When we signed everyone and anyone to overpriced contracts and lost all the time.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
Been an angels fan since '72...
SO i remember all the big names with talent that fizzled….Also didnt have the Scioscia regime either….
im4kiss - December 8, 2010
remember
when Autry bought a bunch of FAs so they could decline in LA
phoenix15 - December 8, 2010
Signing big names in their twilight years isn’t the same as going after Free Agents in their prime.
firebird81 - December 8, 2010
Mark Langston and Mo Vaughn weren't in their twilight years...
we won the WS with home grown talent not people we bought from the FA pool.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
Jon Heyman?
linkbruin - December 8, 2010
Time to focus on the bullpen........
Good pitching beats good hitting………If they can somehow figure out a way to sign Lee…..then I say we just take our five and shut down the other teams every night……
A 2-1 win…….is just as good as a 10-3 win.
Pitching, Pitching, Pitching.
norcaliangelsfan - December 8, 2010
tell that to the Mariners...
desecrator09 - December 8, 2010
but
we have Kendry.
phoenix15 - December 8, 2010
you mean God?
desecrator09 - December 8, 2010
lol kidding
desecrator09 - December 8, 2010
They only have one pitcher.............
and still had no offense……..
norcaliangelsfan - December 8, 2010
Cubs fan here.
Sorry to hear the news. Lee to the Yankees is all but a done deal now with Crawford off the table. Have a good off season.
dtpollitt - December 8, 2010
Im soooo glad we didnt ink crawford to that
Deal… nothing wrong with the angels saying no to that deal… anyone mad can thank the nats for that stupid werth deal now its all or nothing for beltre!!!
wheres_bourjos_at - December 8, 2010 via mobile
I wish
we wasted the money last year on Tex. Then we’ll have an OF of Kendry, Bourjos, and Torii and maybe Kendry wouldn’t break a leg cause Tex hit a HR in the 2nd inning.
phoenix15 - December 8, 2010
This might be premature, but here's December
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
#%q#$^%^e*^%#&#$!$^!##qt%^#$%&^!$!#%$wq#$t^#$%!Clutch - December 8, 2010
Way too much money
$142M?? No thank you. While Beltre may not be the answer, I think he would be a major upgrade at 3B (Wood? Callaspo? Izturis? Come on…). The Angels need an open spot in the OF for Trout anyway.
Pablo944 - December 8, 2010
I appreciate your rationality
It seems to have vanished around here.
I L-O-V-E Carl Crawford…but that type of contract is one we would all be worried about halfway through. He’s an amazing compliment to a super rich team like Boston or NY, but I can’t justify building a team around a #2 hitter
ihearhowie2.0 - December 8, 2010
I feel like it's only a vocal minority here that thinks we should have outbid (or matched i guess) the Red Sox exorbitant offer
linkbruin - December 8, 2010
I don't care about the dollars/year as much as the 7 years.
that’s way to many for a guy whose biggest asset is speed
river-z - December 8, 2010
I'd agree
Years 5,6,7 of that contract will be awful for the sox
linkbruin - December 8, 2010
I'd say if the Red Sox win the World Series in any of the next 7 years
It was a good investment.
Hopefully this does not happen.
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
yeah that changes things - we can only wait to see, I guess.
Hard to see how CC ought to get the same $ as guys like Cabrera, Tex, or Santana.
river-z - December 8, 2010
What if they win a World Series with Crawford on the DL?
Or they win a World Series in a season where Crawford hits .270? Or they win a World Series with Crawford going 0-for-20?
Lots of ways they can win it all and still lose on their investment.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
The Giants won the World Series this year.
That doesn’t make the Zito contract any less of a disaster.
The_Question - December 8, 2010
Is Trout closer to the majors than we think?
TheAntiSox - December 8, 2010
I'd guess 2-3 years tops
Pablo944 - December 8, 2010
i don't think it will be that long., with the way they are talking him up this off season.
he really is a once in a lifetime prospect (despite the Wood, Mcpherson, Mathis, etc. past that we have). you don’t keep those guys in the minors if there is an opening. it goes above the norm of the organization.
I don’t know how crazy i am about it; but i think if he gets off to a great start at AA, he might skip AAA and be with us by mid-season. Hopefully, we are in first an Rivera is hitting well and we can develop him for another year and maybe give him a chance in 2012. But, it is anyone’s guess with Trout.
IE Angel - December 8, 2010
I like your thinking but I suspect its delusional
river-z - December 8, 2010
common sense says yes.
but common sense probably also said that about A-Rod at 18, Miguel Cabrera at 20, Jimmie Foxx (i believe at 17 or 18), and a lot of other names.
I don’t believe that is what is going to happen with Trout. But we have to take into account that it could be in the minds of the organization.
IE Angel - December 8, 2010
The RedSox win the Offseason World Series!
Last years champions, the Seattle Mariners, will be presenting the award.
blochead - December 8, 2010
Oh yeah
compare the 2010 Mariners and the 2011 Red Sox. Completely valid. People stick their heads so far up their asses to deny the truth it is ridiculous. Game over, we are done, tune back in during the 2014 season where the Angels have a chance again.
sctrojan13 - December 8, 2010
Hyperbole?
linkbruin - December 8, 2010
where r my legz?
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
speaking of people sticking their heads up their asses...
“Game over, we are done, tune back in during the 2014 season where the Angels have a chance again.”
lightupthehalo29 - December 8, 2010
at least you have Pete Carroll's jockstrap to snuggle up to
in Seattle. Bye.
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
I didn’t realize
the Red Sox moved to the AL West. Why don’t we get to the postseason before talking about it.
phoenix15 - December 8, 2010
sincerely the 2010 giants
Like poster above says, pitching, pitching, pitching. Get beltre and bolster bullpen.
SCHalo - December 8, 2010 via mobile
The Rangers only made the playoffs
because the Yankees had no pitching and you take away Lee (which they were able to do with Lincecum) then the Rangers were nowhere near a World Series team. Applying the 2010 Giants out of context means nothing.
sctrojan13 - December 8, 2010
Dude
You’re starting to wear on me. And not even because you’re a Trojan (or Trojan fan).
Bitch once, then offer a solution. Don’t bitch twice.
BruinHalo - December 8, 2010
On the internet
its more like bitch 50 times and then hopefully let it go.
Salty - December 9, 2010
eesh, i'm agreeing with a bruin here?
my link to the 2010 giants is pitching, pitching, pitching….what if we end up with Lee? or a solid bullpen?
btw, i’ll still give you a “Fight On!” just because. ;)
SCHalo - December 8, 2010
To be completely honest
The Red Sox roster is way more stacked right now than last year’s Mariners.
Red Sox ’11: Youk, Pedroia, AGonz, Crawford, Ortiz, Ellsbury, Drew, Scutaro, Salty + Lester, Buch, Beckett, Lackey, Daisuke
Mariners ’10: Figgins, Ichiro, Guti, Saunders, Johnson(?), Lopez, Griffey Jr., whoevertheir1Bwas + Lee, Felix, Fister, Vargas, Rowland-Smith
The pitching is comparable, but the Red Sox have a much better line-up than the ’10 Mariners.
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
he was just making a point
that championships are not won in December
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
Thank You
I’m glad someone got it.
blochead - December 8, 2010
it was funny.
Ryin A - December 9, 2010
Obviously not
but when you have a team so much better than your competition it is a different thing. 2009 Mariners had 85 wins and only got there by vastly over achieving. Not all of their additions (like Figgy) were locks as great players. There was a huge amount of skepticism to go along with all the people who thought they would win the division.
Red Sox on the other hand won 89 games with a ridiculous amount of injuries and added an MVP caliber guy to go along with a 5 tool guy who is really, really damn good. Plus they had 2 pitchers under-achieve big time.
Not even close to the same thing.
sctrojan13 - December 8, 2010
yes but
just about every major professional analyst discarded all of your points and they got paid to consider your points and well, your points might be valid and this year they might as well, but you are a real buzzkill with your gloomy overkill and unlike the “experts” you are not even getting paid for it!!!
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
Okay.
POINT
-——————————————————————————————————————————————————→youGorbachav5 - December 8, 2010
Seriously...
did anyone really think the team was “in” on it? i think not. because of all the media reports today i felt there was no way he was heading to anaheim/los angeles. remember the miguel cabrera dealings where the national media had pegged him an angel? well, dombrowski said the heck with it and upped the ante, upping the ante is not anything the angels ever do even though their primary offers may be quite reasonable—somehow the front office thinks playing in the sun will overcome a few more million dollars and an extra year or two on the contract. it hasn’t happened yet, and it won’t happen in the future. i’m tired of the tease.
while $142 million is a hell of a lot for Crawford, that’s what the market yielded, and the angels will never go there—and don’t ever expect anything different.
SactoFan - December 8, 2010
I thought the same
the more the media kept saying Crawford was going to the Angels, the worse I felt about that actually happening.
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
+2
firebird81 - December 8, 2010
Esssssaktly my thoughts...
it pissed me off reading that crap.
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
LA? small market?
You can argue if Crawford was the savior we have been waiting for, but if we decide a player is our guy, then we have to pay big boy market prices otherwise we should just switch to the NL.
elricsi - December 8, 2010
LA is a small market... no foolsball team.
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
Supposedly
the Yankees didn’t even get the chance to make an offer.
so says Cashman
lightupthehalo29 - December 8, 2010
Bastiges, Red Sox and Boras.
Seriously, that was way too damn much money.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Boras is not Crawford's agent
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
See Rev's comment above.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Noted.
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
Actually it was Seraph, pointing out Rev's point:
“That wasn’t his point
Boras uses other agents’ clients as pawns just as well as he does his own."
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Are you the den mother?
Halotosis - December 8, 2010
Are you the cub scout?
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
ha!
You are the MAN … oh wait, nevermind…
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
I'm da woman!
Well, and Cath and Lori and the others.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
I was thinking Halo matriarch
but I think I got in trouble last time I uttered such a thing…
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
We are not your mommies.
I think that’s why you got in trouble.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
or your daddies
that’s what I keep telling everyone around here (in my neck of the woods)
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
I seriously can't wait for game threads with you guys again.
firebird81 - December 8, 2010
I'm with you
These people are just too funny
(and pretty fucking knowledgable too)
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
yep, should be fun
what with Rodney scheduled as the closer, and a LF tandem of Abroo, Rivera and Willits.
can’t wait
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Have to brush off my swear words.
Maybe make up some new ones.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
I wonder how many cabins
Mr and Mrs. Opiejeanne could buy with that much money.
blochead - December 8, 2010
Our cabin was dirt cheap. I was thinking we could afford a boat. ;-)
We’re at the cabin right now, I’ve spent the last two weeks worrying about needing emergency eye surgery (turns out I don’t) and having a root canal. Lovely little vacation.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Any snow in Blue Jay yet opie?
halofolife - December 8, 2010
There were 8 inches a week ago Sunday,
but it’s almost all gone now. We are having really balmy weather up here. I think it hit 65 today.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Gotta love SoCal weather,
My best friend lives in Ohio, it’s been snowing there for the last week, the warmest temperature was 27 degrees, and here in Temecula, today the daytime high was 74 degrees.
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Yeah,
and it only took 2 inches of snow to shut down Seattle for four days. People were abandoning their cars in front of our house in Washington, much to our amusement. They were afraid they wouldn’t be able to get them out later on, and the snow was all gone by 8pm but one car was still there the next day.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
What do you expect opie...
Friggin’ M’s fans and all. Not like they have a lot of common sense girlfriend! ;)
halofolife - December 8, 2010
The funniest thing happens when it rains.
They don’t know how to drive in the rain! They’re marginal when it’s dry, but they just lose their minds when it starts to rain and you know how much it rains there.
opiejeanne - December 9, 2010
We had that much in Washington Thanksgiving week,
snowed on and off from Monday through Thursday, and it had all melted by 8pm on Thanksgiving. It was beautiful and went away really fast.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Are you OK, opie? What happened?
red floyd - December 9, 2010
Just buy Lake Arrowhead in its entirety.
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
Sign Beltre
Try to sign Lee and trade for Josh Willingham. Or just trade for Josh Willingham.
That’s the best I can come up with.
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
DO NOT GIVE THOSE ASSHOLES NAPOLI TOO!!!!
firebird81 - December 8, 2010
Oh man
I would love Napoli, he crushes lefties, right?
Schulz - December 9, 2010
Fucking Shocking
This shit happens every year. How is anyone suprised that the Anlges underbid for a FA and walk away looking like dickheads?
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Dickheads?
For not bettering $20 million per year for seven years for Crawford? I don’t think so.
Pablo944 - December 8, 2010
I won't necessarily say we "underbid".
Crawford is, in my opinion, really not worth the 7/142 he gets from the Sox. We could get Beltre, Soriano, and put some money back in the wallet with that contract.
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
of course he's not worth it
but the reality is every offseason the top 3 or 4 free agents are going to command similar contracts simply due to the scarcity of impact free agents and the fact that NY and Boston are in a never ending battle over who has the biggest dick.
if the Angels ever want any of the top impact free agents, they need to overpay.
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
R I G H T
No doubt the Sux wildly overpaid for Crawford, and in the long run it’s a good thing the Angels were not saddled with a contract that might severely limit us down the road.
But unless the Angels get really good at drafting and developing, and get even more Ninjaesque at trades, at some point they are going to have to overpay to get some piece they desperately need to put together a championship team.
rspencer - December 8, 2010
I certainly hope
this didn’t interrupt Tony’s meal with double-A Arkansas.
Halotosis - December 8, 2010
Is there a Del Taco there in Orlando?
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
apparently not
yeswecan - December 9, 2010
I'm perfectly happy that the Angels passed on this contract.
Not so happy that Boston didn’t though. It hurts the Angels strategically in the rest of the offseason, and Boston will be fielding an absolute beast of a team.
It does suggest, again, that Reagins is in way over his head. You won’t find a single comment from me pining for Crawford this offseason, but it’s clear he was the Angels primary target, and Reagins got pantsed.
Hopefully it works out for us. Personally, my top two targets have been Beltre and Dunn all along. Dunn got scooped up with little resistance. I do hope we won’t let Beltre go to another AL West team.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
How did Reagins get pantsed?
I’m not happy about this either but I also recognize Crawford isn’t all that either and certainly not over 20 million a year that.
Maybe the press likes making stuff up and Reagins is just going about his business.
But yeah we better get Beltre.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
You somehow missed my subject line: I'm very happy we didn't sign Crawford.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
I read that.
Then you said Reagins got pantsed. Explain.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
PANTED? Here is how
He had a strategy. The whole world changed. He stuck to that strategy. He got pansted and they are laughing at him.
There is a party tonight, the cool kids are not wearing their belts
Jayson Werth pulls the pants down of the Nationals GM
Theo puts on a belt and goes to the party
Tony walks in with no belt, that is his strategy. HE gets pantsed. By Theo. Werth and Boras are laughing. Tony now has to buy a BELTre for way too much form Boras before he can go home.
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
A BELTre that has not been available for years
and the best available BELTre
angelsownredsux - December 9, 2010
This^^^ is full of Winz!
Julio Lugo - December 9, 2010
Is it really not clear that Crawford was the #1 FO target?
Screw the fact that it was national media consensus. It was also the local media consensus and the Angels media consensus. Hunter had assurances from the FO that it was all but done. Every LA beat writer had comments from the FO that this was the guy.
I’m glad that we didn’t pay through the nose for Crawford, but it’s frankly in the realm of conspiracy to suggest Reagins didn’t want him.
But the man was also the last dude to show up at the Meetings, claimed he could do it all with his Blackberry and that “face-to-face” time with players was non-essential. There’s still a social element to this game — there’s showmanship, and there’s strategy. Reagins doesn’t get it.
Now, if he wants Beltre, he’ll have to pay more, because he has less leverage that he’s had all season, and Texas is willing to enter the dance just to screw with him and drive up the price.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
Gotcha
I just wanted to clarify you just hate Reagins and aren’t really talking about Crawford.
It sounds like Crawford simply cost to much. That’s my take anyway.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
too many years
river-z - December 8, 2010
20 mill for 5 would have been great
Guarantee you the Sox will be stuck with 2010-style-Figgins for at least 4 of those seasons.
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
Nah....they'll trade him to the A's for their cleanup hitter.
firebird81 - December 8, 2010
I have no hate for Reagins.
I’d gladly drink a scotch with the man.
But he has no place helming a major-market MLB team with aspirations of contending year in and year out. He doesn’t have a background for it, and his years as a player development guy are proving to be some of the drier years in recent Halos player development history.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
How do we know he lost the social game?
Did he really get pantsed, or did he just walk away from a foolish decision? We don’t know right now, and probably never will.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
what you are asking then really is
did he wear a speedo on purpose, knowing he would be pantsed and that the ladies would be looking?
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
Maybe he just wears Speedos all the time?
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
The Angels have made several ridiculously large offers in recent years.
After successful seasons no less. Not just Hunter and GMJ. But Soriano, Teixeira, Sabathia, etc. They pay out — they just come up short.
I don’t buy for a minute that it was a money issue. I think Reagins got worked. I’m constantly surprised at the blank check the fanbase is willing to grant this man for the benefit of the doubt.
Dude, this is the guy that just gave Mathis a raise. And you think he can assert himself?
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
I have issues with Reagins
But the only thing we know right now is that he didn’t just do something incredibly stupid. Maybe he did it because he was smart enough not to, or maybe it was because someone else didn’t give him the chance to be his stupid self. We don’t know. With this much money on the line, I have no doubt it was solely his call to make anyways.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
I seriously doubt that Tony is the only decision-maker in the FO
That Mathis thing has Soth’s fingerprints all over it. So far he has been hit and miss, but he is certainly not Ned Coletti or Brian Sabean.
blochead - December 8, 2010
No -- but he doesn't appear to possess a trump card, either.
A GM shouldn’t be just a puppet of the owner and the coach. What’s the point? It’s just a sign of organizational weakness.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
You're right, he shouldn't, but that is just the reality of this FO.
From all indications, power in the FO is fragmented, with Soth and Tony having an equal say on most matters.
You can’t penalize him for things that are out of his control. I imagine the Crawford negotiations going something like:
Arte: "Crawford wants how much? Oh fuck that!
Tony: “Right boss. On to Plan D”
Soth: “Where’s the lasagna?”
blochead - December 8, 2010
And I don't think Coletti has been any worse that Reagins.
Sabean just took his team to the WS.
How is Reagins in your estimation more successful than those two?
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
For one
He hasn’t given out a Barry Zito-like contract or traded a top 10 prospect for a rental player.
The Giants won the World Series in spite of Sabean’s stupid moves. Even a complete dolt can luck out and win the lottery.
blochead - December 8, 2010
Sabean has the ninth highest winning % of all GMs since 1950.
8 of 12 winning seasons, after 5 of 6 losing seasons under previous management, and he took his team to the WS twice in a single decade.
There’s not a lot of evidence that Sabean is a failed manager. In fact, the exact opposite. He’s been very successful for the Giants.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
He greatly benefited from having one of the greatest hitters of all time
during his roiding prime on his roster. You can’t sit there and tell me with a straight face that the man who traded Liriano, Nathan, and Bonser for A.J. Pierzynski or gave millions to Aaron Rowand is a good GM.
Citing winning a GM’s winning % is just as ridiculous as citing it for a SP. I don’t buy and neither do Giants fans, who have known for a long time that this guy is an idiot. If his teams hadn’t been so terrible mid-decade, they never would have had a chance to draft Lincecum, Cain, and Bumgarner
blochead - December 9, 2010
And they drafted well.
I don’t buy the myth of the solo slugger.
And no, winning %s for managers are not at all like those for starting pitchers. In fact, the exact opposite.
Starting pitcher wins are credited to them based on the entire team’s performance. Meanwhile, a GM has to build an entire team, and you’re making the argument that an entire team is reducible to a single player (Bonds).
Ironically, you just used the same flawed logic for SP wins obversely to describe what a GM does.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
Sabean took the draft so seriously
He decided he’d rather have guys like Michael Tucker and Armando Benitez than first-round picks. The Giants didn’t pick up Lincecum, Bumgarner, or Posey until after their record tanked, and Sabean couldn’t give back his first-rounders even if he wanted to. Sabean could have lost those guys by signing Barry Zito, Matt Morris, and Aaron Rowand without draft protection.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
The same could be said of the Halos in 2003.
How can you really say that Sabean would have lost those picks if he didn’t have draft protection — you’re the guy avoiding theoreticals with Reagins. He HAD draft protection, and made free agent selections when he still could net first round picks. It’s exactly what the Angels are trying to do this season, and Reagins already tried to offer a 100M+ Zito-like contract to a guy who’s never hit 20HRs in his career.
Sabean has made his mistakes — but there are plenty of teams with tons of high first round picks who’ve failed to field winning teams. Sabean isn’t among them. So he made some bad FA deals, and had four losing seasons. He rebounded pretty nicely, and still had twice as many winning teams as losing in his latest tenure.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
That's why I said *could*
Although after burning picks on Tucker and Benitez, I don’t see why it would have dissuaded him from Zito and Rowand. But regardless, after five years rehearsing this material with fans in the Bay Area, I’m just not giving in Brian Sabean.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
But it's getting late, and I didn't really think I'd be defending Sabean in this thread.
I’ll probably regret it later.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
Its 3:51 over here
But I have a take-home exam full of tedious quantum field theory to keep me awake.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
Yikes.
Well, I’m going to go bunch and antibunch my pillows while creating a thermal field next to my gently snoring spouse.
Find some time to sleep, pal.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
you believe in that quantum crap?
…asked the guy writing a book on Tarot readings…
Rev Halofan - December 9, 2010
You must get your quantum crap from the Tarot readers
New Agers really dig quantum physics. Too bad they have no idea what it is.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
I'm an Old Ager
card me and find out!
But anyway, I believe that Dog does not play Lice with the Universe.
Rev Halofan - December 9, 2010
You're more generous than I am with the man.
I just know this is the guy that made the Kazmir deal, signed Fuentes and Rodney for ridiculous money while letting Oliver walk for fear of having to pay him 3.5M in arb. He guts the pitching depth for pieces like Callaspo, and gives Abreu an option year for 2012 that is ridiculously easy to reach. Meanwhile he fumbles on most of his free agent targets, and presided over one of the worst years in a decade (last).
Before this, he was the head of player development for the part of the decade where we struggled to develop a player of note from the draft up.
He’s made two even money deals with Pineiro and Haren, and it’s not like Haren came cheap. It cost us two of best three pitching prospects, and we’ll pay him almost 13M this season to pitch for us.
He ain’t Epstein or Beane — not even close.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
Rec'd.
snowhor - December 8, 2010
You seem to be saying
If Tony really wanted Crawford and did his job competently, then he would have got him. I think there are way too many possible counter-examples to that syllogism, the truth of which may never be known.
But as I said, I have issues with Reagins. It’s undeniable that dumb shit has happened under his watch, although most of that dumb shit involves “small money.” However, he has made some reasonable no-calls, like letting Lackey, Figgins, and K-Rod walk.
His background is really irrelevant. The baseball business is a country club with different standards for competence than the rest of the world. Even if it is from Yale, Epstein holds a freaking American Studies degree, and he made it in the door the same way everyone else does. Theo is now the one on the hook to pay $20+ million to Carl Crawford in 2017.
Again, I’ve been as outraged as anyone about Mathis, more outraged than most about Rodney, etc. My opinion of Reagins is currently negative, although I’m still evaluating him. What happened tonight might not be a feather in his cap, but it certainly is not a black eye.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
Start reading the media details that are emerging.
The Angels had already made a seven year, $108M offer, and were readying another. The Red Sox swept in, offered a few more million more a year, and CC took it. The FO is shell-shocked; they were outmaneuvered.
You weren’t cool with 7 years, and you weren’t cool with 100M+. So you can’t be cool with that initial offer, or pat Tony on the back for failing to raise when he was just an out-of-towner when the event took place.
Again, we can both happy with this result. But I think you’re confusing slowmanship with showmanship. Reagins didn’t willfully flip his cards. He bid high and then went to dinner in Arkansas. By the time he got back, the deal was done.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
I can't really explain it any more clearly
And I’m not so fond of Tony Reagins that I feel compelled to defend him. But I don’t think there’s anything to be confused about here. I would be feeling much more negatively about the man if he had engineered this contract than I am feeling now that he hasn’t. I don’t know why he hasn’t, but he still has an opportunity to stanch this team’s severed artery. In other words, I will reassess my feelings after the Beltre saga plays itself out.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
We'll see.
But I look at it like this:
Two boys were running around with a book of matches in hayloft, and one boy set it afire first. I can’t pat the back of the slow boy because he didn’t take the title of arsonist-in-chief.
Reagins did his best to sign a bad contract. You’re crediting him for his failure to do so. It actually mitigates the former disappointment to a degree for you.
What I see is a man who tried to sign a bad contract AND failed to do so, and I find both disappointing. It’s like a dot product of two vectors of sorrow.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
6/108 is not a bad contract...
7/142 probably is.
Nashdiesel - December 9, 2010
Dot product of two vectors of sorrow
That’s a beautiful line, and I should try to make use of it in enlightened company. Your perspective is reasonable. My thinking is roughly thus:
I was expecting Reagins to offer a bad contract. He did. I was fearful he would offer a totally ludicrous contract. Now that it’s impossible to know if he would have, unless he says so directly, I at least have no positive evidence that his baseball acumen is not any worse than I already expected.
However, I am upset with him for apparently napping on DeJesus, although he probably closed that door on himself by giving Dayton his choice of sub-prime pitching prospects in exchange for Alberto Callaspo. Now there’s no excuse to not get Beltre, or do something productive with third base. If he doesn’t, I’ll buy a round while we take turns throwing darts at Tony’s graduation photo.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
Fair enough.
We’ll both root for Beltre, and better bidding as winter rolls in.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
Reagins' high opinion of his own talent
The Don thought he could show up fashionably late to the winter meetings with his bag of gold, but only offered Crawford the same per year as Jayson Werth got and for fewer years? That’s crazy.
Just about everyone in the media had CC going to LAA, but in the final analysis Reagins’ offer was only 2/3 of what CC got from Boston. That’s not a close second. That’s not even in the ballpark.
Dave Spiwak - December 9, 2010
I agree Turks
I know that the Crawford deal is a hugely overpaid one, but it still remains that more often than not, we don’t sign our own FAs, can’t sign good FAs under Reagins except Hunter and besides the Haren trade a lot of busts. Couple that with the fact that the people we DO offer a contract to is the worst postiion player maybe ever in the game in Jeff Mathis, and Brandon Wood, and a shaky over paid closer, and a LF/RF in Abreu who suddenly forgot how to hit.
FAIL
Sinatrasratpack - December 9, 2010
I'd just like to point out
The Red Sox just signed a 4 WAR player to the 6th largest free-agent contract of all time, which happens to include his 36th birthday.
There’s nothing to be done about that. No one but New York and Boston can afford this kind of decadence.
Time to move on.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
You're mistaken
Nobody but New York, Boston, and the freaking Washington Nationals can afford that kind of decadence.
Trysdor - December 8, 2010
Just because the Nationals did it
Doesn’t mean they can afford it.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
I'm still wondering about that.
Did they blow their entire budget on that one purchase?
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
the Nat's are crazy beyond crazy
river-z - December 8, 2010
They must be. What they paid was insane,
but I was unaware that they had the kind of budget to provide a team to complement that purchase.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Obviously, come April
they’re going to hold “Play alongside Jayson Werth Day” as a recurring promotion
Trysdor - December 8, 2010
followed by "bearded ladies get in for free" day
river-z - December 8, 2010
"Bearded ladies get in for free day",
I believe that’s a red sux thing.
halofolife - December 8, 2010
well the Nat's seem to be trying to copy the Sux way of doing things...
river-z - December 8, 2010
I wonder if "Nat Nation" will become a bunch of pink hat wearing douche's too?
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Hee!
Jebus. I guess he’ll sell a few season tickets for the team, but what a place to get stuck regardless of the money.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
"Decadence" is an epic way to put it
But the Nats had to go “decadent” to get anybody to come to DC
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
That's the way they spin it
But paying “anyone” that kind of money is what keeps other players out of DC. It’s a vicious circle.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
Maybe the Nationals are starring in the sequel to "Brewster's Millions."
The_Question - December 8, 2010
These grapes don't even taste right.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
LOL!
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Plan B?
Beltre? I’m just not sold on a guy that hits .270 every year his contract isn’t expiring.
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
there
was a really good fanpost about this topic
phoenix15 - December 8, 2010
Does anyone else
have a feeling that Bourjos is going to go all Kendry Morales on us and make us feel better about passing on CC?
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
that would be so glorious that i might have to move back to SoCal if he did
river-z - December 8, 2010
I'd take him going Torii Hunter on us
as long as it’s not going Reggie Willits on us
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
I'm in...
Even if he hits .270 he will make a huge difference. Just don’t make watch Juan Rivera anymore…call Brian Downing, Joe Lahoud or Fred Lynn out of there barcaloungers to play left before that happens again.
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
Not in 2011
Zoe Necrosis - December 8, 2010
Waiter, there's something wrong with these grapes!
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Are they sour?
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
trAditionally sour
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
The funny thing is
Yank fan must be shitting in his pants right now. “Those fawking chowds!!!”
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Until the Yankees sign Cliff lee
Pablo944 - December 8, 2010
Lee=7/175
Man, this would make the best off-season even better.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
BJ Upton anyone?
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
I like your thinking young man.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
$10mm in talent...dumb as a box of rocks
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
Take a chance on this guy
He shouldnt cost to much
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
why not?
him and Aybar will make a matching set of rock boxes
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Well, i'm truly shocked.
We didn’t land CC the outfielder. But did anyone honestly think we would? I knew once it became known that Crawford wanted an outrageous contract, that we wouldn’t sign him. And to be honest, I’m not upset at all. Whether because Arte is a little gun shy, or we’re smart enough to avoid an outlandish contract (GMJ not withstanding) that only teams the like of the skanks and sux seem to be able to, or feel inclined to offer. Well, it looks like Beltre becomes the focus of our off season, and maybe Soriano. But to be honest, I doubt we sign them either. Bring on Kevin Kouzmanoff and Kevin Gregg, it’s trAdition! In the very least, I think we should extend WTY and Kowbell. Might as well use the money we supposedly were going to use on Crawford.
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Now those two represent a sound investment
and we’re going to have to pay mucho dinero to make that happen, eh bro?
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Of course Raaddad,
They’ll cost us a ton of money bro, but after all, aren’t Kevin Kouzmanoff and Kevin Gregg worth it? ;)
halofolife - December 8, 2010
the funny thing is
the two fellas are exactly who we probably WILL end up signing!
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Sad but true.
Chances are, when all is said and done, we probably won’t do dick, in terms of signing a quality FA. Bring on the mediocre FA’s, that the front office will pass off as “premium” talent. I haven’t felt this bad since the Anita Bryant concert.
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Wow. I was certainly wrong about this one!
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
I never thought the Sox were out of it
This seems like an annual ritual for the Angels — always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Not sure whether the Sox will move Ellsbury, Cameron, or neither, but damn, they are scary right now.
I guess we’re all hoping for Beltre now. I think we should get Soriano too, but with Boras representing both that will not be cheap or easy.
Brody - December 9, 2010 via mobile
Me too, I thought he'd be a Yanker.
Fred Fredrix - December 9, 2010
VLAD
I’ve given up hopes of winning another ring or signing a big time free agent, at least bring back Vlad and make the team interesting.
If we are going to lose again, I’d at least like to see Vlad play his final days as a halo.
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
me too
him and beltre would fix the offense
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
Vlad would be cool
and while we’re at it: Bring back Hud, dammit!
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
YEAH - HUD!
river-z - December 8, 2010
rec
an announcement of the return of Hud right now would certainly lessen my bitterness level.
another BT coming
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
BT?
Rev Halofan - December 8, 2010
bong toke
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Nice
or as Tim Lincecome would say: “Breakfast.”
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
aaaaaannnnnd
another one down
see you all on the moon
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Careful
You’re gonna get PhiSlamma all ticked off
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
This is the key.
Clutch - December 8, 2010
HUD
channels a mystic level of cosmic synergy that engulfs and transforms all factions of the Halo community into epic greatness. Besides, he cracks me up.
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
I really missed him late last season when the season went south. he's so optimistic
river-z - December 8, 2010
Boston? Really???
time for a BT
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
I hope we dont rush Trout because of this
We cant ruin him, hes a Crawford in the making
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
His upside is significantly higher than Crawford's
Anything other than a 1-2 year stop gap is unnecessary because of him.
blochead - December 8, 2010
Waiting for the next Messiah.
trAdition!
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Nice...
This message endorsed by the bring back a starting infield of Dallas McPherson, Brandon Wood, Howie Kendrick and Casey Kotchman and Jeff Mathis future mega-stars committee
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
true dat
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
He also has plate discipline.
Which Crawford lacks
Slyintine - December 8, 2010
Trout
By the time Trout is an impact player (if that ever happens) we will have lost Weaver and Morales to free agency, this is getting ridiculous.
Baseball needs a cap.
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
how the hell would we lose them
it looks like we are saving money now
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
Boras
both are Boras guys, I’m sure the Nats or some other shitty team will give them a Werth or Burnett type offer that we can’t match
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
I can just see it now.
Tony: We feel we made a competative offer to Carl, squirrel!!"
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Please Don't Sign Beltre
I’m just so worried we’re gonna get the Mariners version of Beltre. If anything, let’s just wrap up Soriano.
AybarIsTheNewFiggy - December 8, 2010
Hmm..
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
I don't recognize the clip.
Is this an example of epic fail, or is he hurt?
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
I think this is where the testicle exploded
blochead - December 8, 2010
*testicles
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
I had forgotten that.
Yowie!
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Torii said it.
“You gotta have nuts!”
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Ohhhh.
Ouch.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
If you only knew!
lol
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
HAHA
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
Ask a thirteen year old girl
when she gets bumped in the boobs. That’s some pain too.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
ahhhh ......
no. (But then how would I know that?)
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
It's not as bad has having your things injured the way this idiot did,
but it’s about equal to getting kneed.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Are you calling the future Mariner's third baseman an idiot?
Thank god we have Callapso
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
hahahaha!
Gotta go. Have to get up reeeally early tomorrow to take Dad someplace.
opiejeanne - December 8, 2010
Thanks for representing as always
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Didn't the man finish the game hurt?
Sign him, sign him good.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
This is why we wear cups.
Christoffer James V Ferreira - December 9, 2010
We?
I’m in the Beltre camp…
Rev Halofan - December 9, 2010
Sorry, I was referring to my self since being an active player. But I assume everyone else wearing a cup when discussing baseball online, it’s comfy.
sign Beltre.
Christoffer James V Ferreira - December 9, 2010
We might get the Mariners' version of Beltre
if Angel Stadium were to somehow be remodeled with Safeco’s dimensions.
blochead - December 8, 2010
The Mariners' version of Beltre
…played Gold Glove caliber defense and solid, if unspectacular, offense considering the environment. Which is a massive upgrade over what we currently have at 3B.
The_Question - December 8, 2010
agreed
blochead - December 8, 2010
I agree
The Seattle version of Beltre would be a good thing for this team.
jjackflash - December 8, 2010
Beltre 20 HR’s, 79 RBI, and .266 BA over 5 years playing half his games in terrible hitters park. Those are All Star numbers compared to who they have in house.
LAAngelsInsider - December 8, 2010
For the low low low price of Six Years 120 million dollars.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
dissapointing
But I had a feeling that we were not going to sign him.
Nelson. - December 8, 2010
To remind everyone, we are getting Kendry Morales back.
or have you guys forgotten who he is?
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
Maybe we are
And maybe we’re getting just a taunting reminder of what our great defector could have been
Zoe Necrosis - December 8, 2010
The starting first baseman on our 25-27 club last year?
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Exactly.
Turks Teeth - December 8, 2010
Yay
he can join the mediocre infield and declining outfield bats to maybe make the offense average.
Plus this is more about the Red Sox than the Angels
sctrojan13 - December 8, 2010
Kendry Morales? Who's that?
Didn’t he star with Lou Diamond Phillips in the movie “La Bamba”?
halofolife - December 8, 2010
they'll really
be utilizing his great defense and speed in front of that wall.
what a f’n joke
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
This is a good point, I think
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
It's a great point!
Why the hell would they sign Carl Crawford toplay the left field?
firebird81 - December 8, 2010
soley so they can
keep up with the joneses…er, I mean Steinbrenners.
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
You know, we haven't won a division title since we let Physioc go.
Coincidence? I think so.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
I think you mean
WRECKS
Zoe Necrosis - December 8, 2010
I have to give it to Theo and Boston
Every year they come out of the gate hard and make it known that they want to win. What can I say, sometimes a tight lipped GM gets on my nerves. Yeah, they overpaid and they have a scary line up. Something tells me Theo showed up on time to the meetings and he has made it really well known who he wanted. I hate them more than anything but I have to give credit where credit is due.
You called it, Rev, another off season of bold promises and no results.
Teixeira Who? - December 8, 2010
Reagins: I'm a sexual dynamo!
20 seconds later….sorry baby, that has never happened to me before
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
I learned something today
It actually IS possible for me to hate the Red Sox more today than I did yesterday…
AybarIsTheNewFiggy - December 8, 2010
+1
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
My December F bomb.
I’ve hated those fuckers since ’86. Fuck booston, fuck chowder, and fuck pink hats!
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Thanks this wound wasn't quite painful enough...
the salt really helps.
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
Look at it this way bro,
I was just pointing out that us losing Crawford to the sux today may sting a bit, but our hatred of all things booston goes much deeper. Screw ’em. And screw Crawford too. Enjoy snow on the ground opening day Carl!
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Realistically
We have to prepare for the very real scenario that Lee signs with Texas, we dont make the playoffs again and then trade Weaver and go into a rebuilding mode.
This team isnt that good and has a small window to win. No prospects coming up anytime soon that will dramatically impact the club and the only player who will be on the payroll in two years who is decent is Morales.
Rebuilding mode is near.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
haha, your hilarious
it was one bad season
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
you guys overreact
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
I feel as though your user name
captures your analysis of this off season thus far.
Teixeira Who? - December 8, 2010
For a while
a component of our success was a crappy AL West which is no longer the case. Howie has platooned, Aybar took a big step back from mediocre, whether or not Bourjos will develop into a quality hitter is uncertain, Torii regressed back to his mean and looks to have lost a step, Abreu declined and likely wont have more than a minor bounce back, Mathis seems to have a bigger role than Napoli, Rivera isnt really that good….unless there is a major change it is easy to see what he means.
Plus we haven’t exactly been the best at developing good major league hitters…like Phi said, Texas is younger and better
sctrojan13 - December 8, 2010
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
Fuck yeah!
I love slap hitters!
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
what about 2011?
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
we are fine if we get a cheap LF and Kendry is healthy
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
define fine
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
In the race with texas the whole season
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
I forgot Conger and Reckling
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
You love our farm system more than the FO does.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Mathis Wood Aybar Dallas Mcph
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
Aybar is not a bust
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
He's a bust as far as his bat goes.
snowhor - December 8, 2010
Conger is next season's
Buster Posey.
a rookie catcher leading his team of solid pitching and meager offense to the WS title.
BOOK IT
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Texas is better and younger.
The Red Sox are just plain more talented.
Look at the “talent” we have offensively:
Aybar
Kendrick
Bourjos
Rivera
Wood/Callaspo
Mathis
Awesome. How the hell can you expect to win when you have 2/3rds of your lineup who have no idea how to walk, hit, or do anything of value at the plate?
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
+1
snowhor - December 8, 2010
As much as I hate them
the bosox are great at developing players, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Buchholz, Lester, Kalish, they always have a great farm. they arent like the yankees who can develop anyone and just sign big FA
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
I don't know
Posada, Jeter, Rivera, Cano, and Hughes are all pretty good…
river-z - December 8, 2010
im talking recently
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
other than hughes and cano, there nobody
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
Austen Jackson, Brett Gardner?
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Hughes benefitted from the
highest run support of anyone SP last season. his record is hollow. he will not be the next Clemens like they have said.
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Lowrie, Bard and Youkilis ain't bad either!
Julio Lugo - December 9, 2010
We blew it
7/140 is not beyond the pale, certainly not in the way the Werth contract was. Crawford has been consistently a very good, near All-Star player, averaging 3.7 WAR the last 7 seasons, and he had by far his best offensive season in 2010. He’s only going to be league-age 35 at the end of this. Go look at his best comps — Lou Brock, Max Carey, Zack Wheat, Luis Gonzales — all of these guys were contributing in their early 30s, and most were in fact peaking.
Signing Crawford through his age-35 season would have meant we would almost certainly have the best OF defense for at least a half-decade, while our staff was anchored by an extreme flyball pitcher in a marine layer park. Now we have what, Juan Rivera? This is a failure.
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Nailed it.
Teixeira Who? - December 8, 2010
The Front Office is more comfortable overspending on mediocre players than whiffing on a good player.
Hey GMJ only cost 50 million. Thats a smaller number then 140 million!
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
have faith in the bat sniffer. switch him to right, have torri go to left. i think that would do. or make reggie an everyday starter?
GutterDem0n - December 8, 2010
Sorry, I guess I was more interested in winning baseball games than finding bargains
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Ok who hacked Matt Welch's account?
seriously this is crazy talk. We missed out on one FA here, and frankly he isn’t a tier one FA based on his stats. The offseason has just started. I’m willing to eviscerate Reagins if 2012 is a total flop but I’m gonna give him a little bit of a leash to see what he does.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
"make reggie an everyday starter"
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
hauldog will go ape shit.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
EXACTLY!!!!!!
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
I don't think refraining from severely overpaying a guy is whiffing
I think you’re over-rating Crawford by quite a bit. Yeah, he should retain his value better than a slower, poor defense guy, but chances are that last year was his absolute peak.
I would have loved to see him in the OF, but I think the Angels have higher priorities for that much money. I’m glad they didn’t spend that much on Crawford.
Gorbachav5 - December 8, 2010
I don't understand
In 9.5 seasons, Crawford has not accumulated $142 million in WAR, even with the more favorable Fangraphs WAR. How is he going to do that over the next seven seasons, none of which include his statistical prime?
There’s almost zero chance the Red Sox come close to breaking even on this deal. That doesn’t bother them as much, because they’re the Red Sox. Conventional baseball economics don’t really apply to them.
I don’t see how avoiding perilous liability is a failure on the part of the Angels. Risk-averse behavior, perhaps, but not unreasonable.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
Dude, you should be busy hi-fiving Tony Reagins right now
The Angels have a lousy LF situation; Crawford will almost certainly play some of the best LF in the league for the next 5 years minimum. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
It really is more complicated
The situation in LF is not half as lousy as the situation at 3B. Meanwhile, this is the second-largest contract for an outfielder ever. Think about that. Would Lou Brock be worth that much money today?
Incidentally, the Red Sox are also responsible for the largest ever contract for an outfielder. His fielding was worse than shit, -50 runs across eight seasons, but he delivered 400 runs above replacement with just his bat.
Suboptimal - December 8, 2010
You make so much sense, it's scary
Brody - December 9, 2010 via mobile
Agreed
I hope Sub gets paid well wherever he works—“I’ve seen the brightest minds of our generation…”
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
uhhh.....
The third base problem is a lack of offense, the left field problem is a lack of DEFENSE. Virtually every single hit to left field last year resulted in extra bases. Left field is a greater need.
firebird81 - December 9, 2010
Not true
93 doubles and 1 triple out of 371 hits to left field is nowhere close to “virtually every single hit.” There’s no doubt that the Angels’ LF defense was bad: Abreu, Rivera, and Willits were probably about 10-15 runs worse than average out there. But with batting factored in, the Angels got somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 total WAR out of their left fielders. Of course that’s not good, but when the Angels actually lost about 1.5 WAR at third base, they stand a lot to gain a lot more from a 4 WAR 3B than a 4 WAR LF.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
Ding, ding!
Beltre has been my top target all along with Crawford second. I kind of figured the team had it reversed, but now they don’t have much choice.
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
They didn't raise their payroll
This was the money they spent on Lowell and me. Gonzalez will be paid 6.5 mill next season and after that, they’ll have another 55 millions coming off the books (Ortiz, Papelbum, Drew Scutaro and Cameron).
Actually, their payroll will DECREASE! God I hate ’em!
Julio Lugo - December 9, 2010
I bet this thread goes beyond 1000 posts before Reagins even knows CC signed with BOS...
Dear diary,
Had a good day today (as always). Carl Crawford in the bag. Great offer: still leaves us money to burn. So confident I’m going to bed early, turning off cell and already unplugged the hotel phone (of course).
—Tony R.
Dave Spiwak - December 9, 2010
Just normal Business....
This owner & management can’t close a deal( Torii was the last, so called big deal), What about all the " huge" cash influx which they didn’t spend!!!! Any comment from Torii yet???
haloigor - December 8, 2010
Torii is taking Tequila shots and slamming head into his car door.
but other than that he’s doing ok
river-z - December 8, 2010
"Hey man, you know man, I gotta give it to my boy Carl.
Shoot, man, that’s a lot of money, man. I can’t wait to see him in the post season, man. I’m going to rob him of a hit. A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Nah, man, you know how we do." – Torii (probably)
Teixeira Who? - December 8, 2010
ha
black people talk
angelsownredsux - December 9, 2010
Youre racist. You think he's black.
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
imposter
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
Draft Pick
If we sign Beltre or Soriano do we have to give up a draft pick?
I know we were on the bubble regarding our record and compensation
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
Not a first rounder
Just a second rounder.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
Which makes the F.A. whiffing all the more intolerable
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
To an extent, I agree
I was down to give Crawford a little ways over 100 mil…but over $50 mil more than Torii got? I don’t know about that.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
Dear Commander Nate:
That shot is looking more and more likely in your near future.
Respectfully Yours,
Phi
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
craving the malibu rum, are you?
DAMN YOU BOSTON!!!!
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Hey! Speaking of coming through on such things--
Whatever happened to that tat, bro?
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Forgot about that.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
What would you have gotten
if you got one?
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Dear Phi
At this point, I hope you’re right.
PS: Your bear can suck my balls…this is his fault.
That is all.
Commander_Nate
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
New #1 Target
Albert Puljos in 2012. The quote will be “The Angel’s front office is focused to put together the best offer within reason that we can”….media reports have the Angels as a front runner though the Yankees may a have “some interest” according to sources
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
I can't wait to sign
Puljos!
vlad IS my man - December 8, 2010
Right. Then we offer him 5/80 and say it was a fair offer.
After gloating how we will make a splash the front office will yet again be competitive in the FA market.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
That one will run 10/200 mil
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Yanks offer pujols $260 million for 10 years
Angels offer $100 million for 5 years
in a stunner, Pujols picks the Yanks!
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
"We made a fair offer that we thought was good enough. For some reason he picked the contract with double the years and money."
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Even after Torii took him fishing and to the zoo this next off season?
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
You guys have no faith in this team
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
I have no faith in this front office.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
no faith in the guy who got us Haren, Hunter and Teixeria?
We cant get everybody
mathisrocks5 - December 8, 2010
Great Point
I guess we are all fired up, hopefully he comes through
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
you're right, they can't get everyone
but it would be nice to get the one guy the media, front office and Torii Hunter have been shoving down our throat for the past 3 months.
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
I'm with ya.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Come on man.
We can’t get everybody? We can’t get anybody!
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
I'm so tired of this argument
Yes, this front office has signed good players in the past as well as some duds (see GMJ). Our FO is great at making trades yet can’t seem to figure out how a check book works. How about, for a change, we give up a lot of money for a great player instead of potential talent for a great player? I’m just so tired of watching other teams nab players from right under Tony’s nose. Do you want to know a secret? We got away with this because the AL West sucked. Now, it doesn’t suck. Therefore, our FO needs to not suck.
QED
Teixeira Who? - December 8, 2010
I find your statement ironic considering your username.
Nashdiesel - December 8, 2010
WE GOTZ MAFFIS!
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
Or in mathis
Somehow I cant get past the errors, past balls, stolen bases and .190 batting average.
Not that much different than the front office. Suck is suck. Having faith in suck to be good is just dumb.
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
Not surprised we didn't get him.
But the thought of him in a Red Sox jersey makes me puke.
Figgi4life - December 8, 2010 via mobile
It's bad but I'd feel worse if i was a rays fan
river-z - December 8, 2010
You all want to know the worst part?
This makes Tony look like a real limp dick. This deal was practically done. Come on, this makes Anaheim look bad. This is our time to conquer LA. and to become a permanent fixture amongst the big teams in the league. Let’s not blow it.
Teixeira Who? - December 8, 2010
Its like he strutted in, winking at people.
Being like, “Yo bros, on the way to sign Crawford, move out of the way”. Walks into the room with CC’s agent and is like:
Ok, lets get this done. How does 2 years, 20 million sound! BAM! Sign here.
And everyone looks at him like he is a fucking moron.
Thats what happened this week. We are that guy.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
LLOL!!!
so true, and so sad
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
ROFL.
Reagins walks out saying, “haters gonna hate.”
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
Manny Vlad or Matsui
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/angels/post/_/id/1165/whats-next-for-the-angels
another fixture at DH
The Blake Griffin Era - December 8, 2010
oh god, help us!
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
$100 it's gonna be Izzy all too often
river-z - December 8, 2010
disgrAceful
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
No.
No.
Fuck No!
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
the No's have it
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Man Ram, Beltre, Soriano.
shit’d be lawlz worthy.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
You know. Pujols. Red Sox and Yankees dont need him, like at all.
We might be one of the only teams that can afford a 30m/year contract. Move Morales to right.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
there's no way he's leaving St Louis
river-z - December 8, 2010
he has a no trade to everywhere but the angels and one other place.
he must like it here. but yeah, he’s staying.
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
they'd either
find room somehow or trade someone away to make room. without hesitation
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Angels projected lineup:
1B Morales
2B Kendrick
SS Ayabr
3B Callaspo/Wood
RF Hunter
CF Bourjos
LF Rivera
DH Abreu
C Mathis/Napoli
How the hell can we beat anyone with that piece of shit lineup?
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
That was also our projected lineup yesterday but everyone felt better about things
We aren’t done in this offseason yet. We can’t be.
lightupthehalo29 - December 8, 2010
Look at that lineup and try not to cry.
Can you pick me out two players with on OBP higher than .355?
How about someone with 30+ steals?
Maybe a 35+ HR guy?
Literally one legit bat. One and a half if you count Hunter.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Don't forget, Hunter's overdue for a decline!
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Hey, but THIS is Wood's year!
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Problem is,
Every GM will be licking his cops when Tony calls. They know they can really fleece us because of we are desperate. I bet, that Tony does nothing in terms of trades for this exact reason.
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
*licking his chops*
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
Hopefull they're not "licking cops"
but if that’s what it takes . . .then fine
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
LMAO!
firebird81 - December 9, 2010
That's what I used to tell myself in years past.
I know now that it is done.
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
Great pitching
and don’t forget Rodney comin in to lock down the 9th
Awesome!
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
One game at a time.
Maybe this year we’ll win a softball team.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
Sweet we are re-entering the years of
I SWEAR GUYS WE ARE GOING TO SIGN A BIG BOT FOR REALZ THIS OFFSEASON WATCH LULZ
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Forfeits?
snowhor - December 8, 2010
Won't cry...
Just won’t watch (or spend) if that is the team. Somebody has to call BS
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
Boston's Projected Lineup
CF Jacoby Ellsbury
LF Carl Crawford
1B Adrian Gonzalez
3B Kevin Youkilis
2B Dustin Pedroia
DH David Ortiz
RF J.D. Drew
C Jarrod Saltalamacchia
SS Marco Scutaro
Start crying.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Well sure, but only if good players routinely beat shitty players.
Has that been scientifically proven yet?
snowhor - December 8, 2010
Have you seen the Pirates play?
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
they can all pick up where they left off--after 2009 season.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
You are forgetting how premium Mathis is.
Christoffer James V Ferreira - December 9, 2010
Thank science "Case of Beer" is winning
Because it is the solution to all problems.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
This is a total FAIL!
Wait, it happens every FREAKING year!!!!
KB_24 - December 8, 2010
annuAl trAdition!
sheisalovelyladyandmyapologiestoher - December 8, 2010
pAthetic
KB_24 - December 8, 2010
Would you have River shift to right, with that arm he has, and Torii to left?
Or have Reggie become a starter?
How about Cory Aldrige? he did great in spring training this year. Don’t judge him on the few at bats he got in his call up
GutterDem0n - December 8, 2010
damnit, Rivera*
GutterDem0n - December 8, 2010
Rivera sucks
grahams98 - December 8, 2010
Honestly, yes
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
Yes, our future depends on Cory Aldridge!
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Power Q should had been re-signed.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
Send Jered Weaver to Philly to re-aquire Q
joke
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
i c that there should be a 'c' in acquire.
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
Podsednik, anyone?
Figgi4life - December 8, 2010 via mobile
Personally
I’d take him. 2 year, 8 million. Shove him in left, he’ll start one year, then phase out/train Trout in 2011
Figgi4life - December 8, 2010 via mobile
Oh gawd
My Bahstin friends are going to be insufferable
again
ef it all
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
already heard from 1 tonight
fuck
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
If the Yanks are the "Evil Empire"
what are the Sux? The “Idiot Empire?”
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
Yes, it's so stupid to sign the best left fielder in the American League! In his 20s!
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Its more important to not "overpay" year after year
then to win.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Ok, fine.
Hoe bout the “ESPN Empire”?
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
"Left fielder"
Wow. So they’ll waste his good D on the green monster. I guess he’ll last longer that way, but still seems like a waste.
Figgi4life - December 8, 2010 via mobile
Didn't Josh Hamilton just win the MVP award?
The_Question - December 8, 2010
True
Then played CF throughout the playoffs.
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Most of his regular season starts were in left.
The_Question - December 8, 2010
Crawford has been the 2nd best LFer in the AL for 5 of the last 7 years
Quite a few of those Hamilton was hitting the crack pipe. Hamilton’s a much brighter talent, for sure.
mattwelch - December 8, 2010
Fair enough.
The_Question - December 8, 2010
How about we refer to the sux....
As the Fenway F*ckers? That sounds about right Raaddad.
halofolife - December 8, 2010
That name
Could tempt Napoli to move over there.
Figgi4life - December 8, 2010 via mobile
lol
I like the “Fenway F**kheads” too
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
The sky is falling, the sky is falling AHHH!!!!
Even some of the most rational and sensible posters on HH are going all Chicken Little on us tonight.
blochead - December 8, 2010
The offer the Angels made wasnt even close to competitive.
All we have done is sign a lefty bullpen guy while Texas is still better than us and the Red Sox added two HUGE pieces.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Maybe that was what they believed Crawford was worth to them
Just because the Market dictates that he is worth 142 million doesn’t make it true.In any case, Opening Day is still about 4 months away so I will reserve judgement until all our moves are finalized.
blochead - December 8, 2010
Next move, an aging DH.
Just like last year.
“we really feel (matsui/vlad/manny) make us a better offensive team. I mean we know firsthand what he can bring to a team. and we definitely come away from today a better team because of this signing.”
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
I guess you really love
Juan Rivera playing defense.
Figgi4life - December 8, 2010 via mobile
Mat's just mad
cause Santa didn’t bring him his present this year.
How bout the lump of coal instead?
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
"Lump of coal" being no FA's whatsoever
or maybe it was extending Mathis
Raaddad - December 8, 2010
If these contracts are so bad
Why do the Sox and Yankees keep winning. Got to spend to get good. Got to be good to be great. Anything else is small market thinking
ArchAngel_7 - December 8, 2010
I think we have been fairly happy with the contract we "overspent" the most on.
Hunter has worked out for us pretty good. And we had to overpay to get him
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
True
We knew what Crawford originally wanted, which was a little north of $100 mil if I recall, and should have offered that straight up after the World Series was over.
An overpay, yes, but it would have been a reasonable one.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
Red Sox & Yankees dont have to live with consequences of bad contracts
Angels have a budget. they don’t. Angels have hit a turning point. Obviously they can’t or wont take their payroll much higher than around $134ish mil and while the prospects of a new TV deal are nice they can’t create their own network like NESN or YES. They just don’t have the following to sell a pay channel.
They HAVE to do a better job of player development on the hitting side or they’re doomed.
LAAngelsInsider - December 8, 2010
Exactly
New York and Boston play by a different set of rules. They can afford to make big mistakes, and just write a big check to another player to make up for it.
The_Question - December 8, 2010
Wait, you mean that...
…aside from the like 1 in 100 times a guy like Mike Trout pops up, that drafting high school position players over college guys all the time and expecting them to turn out great 5 years later isn’t a good idea? Interesting.
No, the snark isn’t directed at you, Jason or whoever this is from LAAI, but damn. With all those early draft picks over the last couple of years, I really never understood how we couldn’t have found at least 1 or 2 college seniors or juniors anywhere in the country.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
Well Bane is now gone...
we’ll see what the new strat is going to be going forward.
Nashdiesel - December 9, 2010
I'm tired of getting bitch slapped by Boston.
Id think Artie would to. Guess not. Hope they bought tony dinner first
ArchAngel_7 - December 8, 2010
What are you talking about?
We pushed their shit in the last time it mattered.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
THIS
is our new scoreboard mantra
Are you ready to push their sh….
Seraph - December 8, 2010
watched Training Day lately?
firebird81 - December 9, 2010
On the bright side
we didn’t just sign Jack Cust, like the Mariners
2pintsofbooze - December 8, 2010
Can't blame Crawford, can't blame Red Sox
FUCK YOU NATIONALS!
Sox would’ve been happy with Werth and you had screw it all up.
lightupthehalo29 - December 8, 2010
Word.
Julio Lugo - December 9, 2010
Cliff Lee
he’s the only singular piece that could actually make the current team a title contender.
otherwise, it’s going to take 2 offensive pieces, not just a beltre or a crawford.
hope tony is hitting the esl utility player list and seeing who we can snag to rotate around the infield
cliff lee cliff lee cliff lee release mathis cliff lee cliff lee cliff lee
Quinlan's Goofy Swing - December 8, 2010
Sweet, lets be the Mariners of last year.
Cant wait.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
mariners were a haren and a weaver away
from being the sf giants
Quinlan's Goofy Swing - December 8, 2010
That Felix guy is pretty good.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
crooked hats can work
but not on closers
Quinlan's Goofy Swing - December 8, 2010
the guy was right Arte is cheap......7 years 108 mil wasnt going to effin cut it
you have to spend to win! WTF!?
KB_24 - December 8, 2010
Is this confirmed as the Angels' offer?
Not that they should have offered more, but they had to have known post-Werth that would not get it done.
The_Question - December 8, 2010
confirmed
KB_24 - December 8, 2010
I thought it was 6/108
The Torii contract plus one year
lightupthehalo29 - December 8, 2010
http://angels.ocregister.com/2010/12/08/report-angels-offered-108-million-for-crawford/69204/
nah go there itll tell you
KB_24 - December 9, 2010
Wow
Reagins did kinda stick to his guns though.
Before the offseason we weren’t even sure this guy was getting 100 million
lightupthehalo29 - December 9, 2010
Fuck this
Im going to get drunk and find someone to fight who has anything remotely close to a Bostonian accent.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Wicked good idea!
rspencer - December 8, 2010
Come to PB
There are a fair amount down here. I know where to go, what alleys to use and have a pretty comfy couch. There are even crossed out Boston “B’s” and Patriots logos spray painted on some of the sidewalks (not my doing unfortunately)
Seriously though, like 80% of this town isn’t even from here. The streets are fair game among sports fans.
Commander_Nate - December 8, 2010
As long as you fight random strangers with me, Im game.
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
Dude, that is seriously pretty easy to do around here haha
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
You in Pacific Beach mate?
lightupthehalo29 - December 8, 2010
Yep
You too?
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
UTC
lightupthehalo29 - December 9, 2010
Nice, not too far away
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
I used to live their too
so many barneys with pre-faded Bahston hats talking about how Irish they aaaaaaare.
autry's cowboys - December 9, 2010
But they grew up in Escondido and have never been to Fenway...
Or Ventura, Long Beach, etc.
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
yep
but hey….they’ve “always been Red Saaaaawx fans”. Same guys that ruined beers on the sand.
autry's cowboys - December 9, 2010
willits can play left
willits + bourjos + mathis
the fiercest 789 in the league, but they play a defense first position so anything you get on the offensive side is a bonus.
sincerely,
Michael MF Scioscia
Quinlan's Goofy Swing - December 8, 2010
You know what. I'm tired of this shit.
I expect this of the A’s and Pirates. The KC Royals are always getting screwed, and the Marlins are are used to giving up talent, for little or nothing in return. But once again, the Halos are on the outside looking in, regarding premier FA’s, a team supposedly with lots of money, that doesn’t do shit with it. This is some small market shit. I don’t expect us to sign anyone of relevance, and quite honestly I’m sick of it. I know that FA’s are expensive, but we have to decide, are we going to be serious players in MLB, or are we going to be satisfied with competing, but not challenging? Arte and ninja have let us down big time. Bring on the leftover free agents. I’m pissed, this is BS.
halofolife - December 8, 2010
Maybe players don't want to come here
Quinlan's Goofy Swing - December 8, 2010
Not when we offer limp dick offers of 7/103
PhiSlamma - December 8, 2010
im pissed we always offer crap!
Arte and effin Reagins never want to spend we have to spend money to win!
KB_24 - December 9, 2010
ya !!!
I wipe my ass with $103 million/turd. Does Reagins expect me to go through the day with a soiled ass crack? I think not
angelsownredsux - December 9, 2010
ALRIGHT
knock this shit off.
see what i did there?
Rev Halofan - December 9, 2010
Of course they don't brotha,
Not when we know what the going rate is, but we try to lowball FA’s. We all knew (Reagins and Arte too) what CC would want, in terms of contract demands, but we offer him 108 million, when we knew that Jayson Werth signed a 7/126 offer? If they wanted to sign cheap talent, with an eye towards cost effective contracts, that would be one thing, but all off season, we’ve heard how Arte and company knew they had to spend, in order to get free agents. But, we still weren’t willing to offer the going rate for said FA’s. I’m tired of this shit. I love the Halos, and always will, but I don’t want our club to offer Kevin Kouzmanoff a contract, just because Beltre is too expensive. Save that shit for KC and Pittsburgh bro. As for any aspirations for Pujols. Do any Angel fans really feel like we’ll be able to sign him? We couldn’t friggin’ sign Granderson. Pujols is a pipe dream.
halofolife - December 9, 2010
We'll get Beltre
The Yankees and Red Sox are set at 3B (A-Rod and Youkilis), so there isn’t another team with real money to swoop in and take him away.
The_Question - December 9, 2010
Never discount the fact that we can't sign players,
That supposedly want to play for the Halos, let alone FA’s that have other offers. Beltre and Soriano will probably play somewhere else next season. We’ll be lucky to land Kevin Gregg.
halofolife - December 9, 2010
Don't fall into despair.
Players sign when it’s in their interest, usually for the highest offer available. There will be significant pressure on the Angels to make a strong offer to Beltre, and not any serious competitors who can top what the Angels can pay.
The_Question - December 9, 2010
I am not in despair bro.
I am simply being realistic. We’ll be lucky at this point to land any FA that we’ve targeted. I’m only basing this on current events.
halofolife - December 9, 2010
My shopping list at the beginning of the offseason:
1. Beltre
2. Dunn
3. Trade for DeJesus (or Kemp or Kalish or…)
(3b. Find homes in trade for Abreu, Rodney and/or Rivera)
4. Downs and/or Takahashi
5. Defensive catcher to pair with Conger: Olivo or Torrealba
Of all of the above, Crawford is nowhere to be found, and only one of the above is completely foreclosed upon (Dunn).
The Angels can still make a serious offseason of this.
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
Nice plan
2 and 5 are out (Mathis will be the “defensive” catcher, sadly), but 1, 3, and 4 are perfectly viable.
The_Question - December 9, 2010
I don't believe Olivo has signed yet.
Am I behind the clock?
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
The Mariners have supposedly made an offer to Olivo, but no he hasn't signed yet
~MMP~ - December 9, 2010
He's been awfully good.
Second-best catcher at controlling the running game in baseball last season. And he can hit for power.
(Though we wasn’t so hot with the passed balls, though that’s not as critical as throwing runners out.)
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
We'll never sign a catcher,
As long as we have the “premium” catcher Mathis.
halofolife - December 9, 2010
It's still technically possible, yes.
Olivo hasn’t signed. I guess my point is that the team seems satisfied with its catching options, and would not be inclined to add a defensive specialist. I would much prefer your solution, but the tender to Mathis makes it appear very unlikely.
The_Question - December 9, 2010
So much for the art of the possible!
Turks Teeth - December 9, 2010
i hope that dumbass ninja can pull Kemp out of his ass
KB_24 - December 9, 2010
I'm not as disappointed in not signing Crawford
as the fact that we reportedly tried our best and failed miserably.
lightupthehalo29 - December 9, 2010
How about the Ray's fans?
This is devastating to the Ray’s, once again the small market loses. The Sux have just added TWO all-stars. Skanks will likely add Cliff Lee, the Rays? . . . well they have to hope to hit another lucky strike with more rookies. . . just isn’t fair.
At least we just have to win a best of 5/7. That can be done. To outplay them over 162, and having to watch your former franchise player on the other team. . . that just sucks.
Wally's World - December 9, 2010
EFFF the Rays and their 20 Fans we need to make moves!
KB_24 - December 9, 2010
EFFF you and your 0 fans! We need to make moves
The sentence I just posted makes as much sense as yours. WTF does the Rays, let alone their fanbase, have to do with the Angels FO?
Figgi4life - December 9, 2010 via mobile
look at the comment above assclown
KB_24 - December 9, 2010
Outside the box thought
What about Magglio Ordonez? Boras is supposedly looking for a 2/20 deal for him. With Boston out of the running, we may be able to make that second year a vesting option. He had a 130 OPS+ last year, is a reliable .370 OBP, and should be less of a defensive liability in left than in right. Sign him, push Abreu to DH in 2011, then have Maggs DH in 2012 once Trout is ready to take over in left. Any thoughts about this?
The_Question - December 9, 2010
Magglio would be a welcome addition to any team,
That wasn’t claiming to be involved with any free agent acquisitions. At this point, Magglio should be considered a type F free agent. Of course considering we’ve lost out terribly thus far, I’m sure Reagins and Arte would consider him a sound investment. It’s like being a friggin’ fan of the Royals now.
halofolife - December 9, 2010
I was thinking this too.
Fits the mold perfectly. Old, aging outfielder on the down slope of his career. PErfect Fit.
angelskid2210 - December 9, 2010
Soth will at least have DH open.
FML
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
This really sucks, but...
I’m REALLY hoping we don’t sign Adrian Beltre. He is not the answer.
I would go after Cliff Lee, hard.
The Giants proved this season a World Series could be won without much hitting.
Get Cliff Lee, and then maybe ship Santana to the Mets for David Wright or something.
Just no Beltre. He’d be lucky to hit 15 homers a season for us.
bc56274 - December 9, 2010
I've always thought
The point of Lee was to get Kaz out of the rotation. If you’re just gonna throw out another SP, then say hello to Scott Kazmir. Unless, we have a replacement for Kaz, and then I say don’t get Lee.
Figgi4life - December 9, 2010 via mobile
No, I would agree- sign Lee and trade one of our other starters for a solid 3B of LF
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
So you like the idea
Of seeing Scott Kazmir trott out to the mound every fifth day?
Figgi4life - December 9, 2010 via mobile
Much more than I like the idea of Abreu in the OF or Callaspo at 3B.
Balls and Strikes - December 10, 2010
Beltre hit 15 home runs on the road last year
As well as 30 doubles. He’ll get his XBHs.
mattwelch - December 9, 2010
haters gonna hate.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
This was such an easy one to call and I've been saying it all along...
(although so has everyone else who isn’t an Angels fan)
…that the Angels won’t get anyone of importance this offseason. Oh sure, they might get someone who actually will bring the club down over the years (read: Beltre), but no one to help.
Reagins is the cancer.
And whomever they get as sloppy seconds now, people out of desperation will justify it as a “good” signing when weeks earlier were saying anyone but that person. It’s what hapens when you don’t get what you want ;)
The Yanks and Sox play to win, and their fans benefit.
RedFog - December 9, 2010
This will be a good reminder footnote when people complain why there is such an East coast bias...
Who exactly is coming out West? ;)
RedFog - December 9, 2010
Beltre wont bring down the team as much as callaspo or wood.
Balls and Strikes - December 9, 2010
What's Matt Holliday's contract?
the cards are geniuses
angelsownredsux - December 9, 2010
+ now that Boston own Crawford, they probably will get rid of Ellsbury so I suggest we try to make a deal out of him. He would fit great into our lineup.
Good day everyone
Christoffer James V Ferreira - December 9, 2010
Trout is not joining our team this year.
I love the complacency “we’ll have a decent lineup”
princeton11loveshalos - December 9, 2010
Mark my words
Beltre will be a bust if we sign him.
Figgi4life - December 9, 2010 via mobile
predicting failure is like predicting a fart
sooner or later you are right and you stink
Rev Halofan - December 9, 2010
LOL
Figgi4life - December 9, 2010 via mobile
I presume you are somewhat of an expert on the subject?
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
I presume you are somewhat of an expert on the subject?
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
I just woke up. What's been going on?
Wait…. What?
WiHaloFan - December 9, 2010
it was a busy night
Jim…
Rev Halofan - December 9, 2010
My Roid Suk cousin in Bawston just texted me: "CCheckmate"
annoying prick
Quad Fin Rider - December 9, 2010
I got one last night saying
“the rich get richer”
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
I'll say it again....
Atre is full of shit. I’m weary of his recent unfulfilled promises. When a reporter sticks a microphone in his grill asking about offseason’s plans, he just needs to smile and change the topic to the price of parking or beer at the Big A.
As for Reagins, he should be the GM of Cedar Rapids – not a big market team. He is so not in the class of Cashman or Theo, he simply lacks their business acumen. This is offseason is just like last years: a joke. Reagins is a fraud.
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
Too soon to tell. Give it some time.
If Beltre and other top FA’s sign with other teams, then I agree. If we get Beltre, to me that is a huge. I think everything we need to know will be answered in the next few days.
As far as Crawford goes, like most have already said: Too much money, too long a contract.
angelslogic - December 9, 2010
Beltre is enough.
Our “splashes/moves” will come mid-season. If we have a hole in the lineup, they’ll find the right person.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
Approxiamately
10 games to late, tho’
rmhalofan - December 9, 2010
They'll find us another Callspo~~ woo-hoo!~
Wally's World - December 9, 2010
Could've been Derek Lee, but he respectfully declined.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
This is some urine in my breakfast right here
I am not disappointed that the Angels saved $20 mil a year. I am disappointed that the Red Sox, who are already very good but were decimated by injuries, probably just became a 100-win team, even in the ultra-competitive AL East (because if we’re being honest, there are four decent teams there). My only consolation is that we don’t have to beat them out for a playoff spot, and like they say, a short series is a whole new ballgame.
Still makes me sick. I also hate seeing long-time players go to divisional rivals. Vlad just went where he would get paid because the Angels really didn’t want him much anymore. CC basically laughed at his hometown team and went right over to their rivals.
Trout is 2012 unless he’s going to be The Greatest Angel Ever. Just please, for the love of Kirk McCaskill, do not let Juancho play in left field this year.
Kernel - December 9, 2010
CAN YOU SAY PETER BOURJOS!!!!
YEAH!!!!!!
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - December 9, 2010
Arte is saving his money for Albert Pujols next off-season!
Dono Romantico - December 9, 2010
So we can watch the Yankees or Boston swoop in again?
every single year……
firebird81 - December 9, 2010
Each have their 1B.
Why Albert go play DH for either.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
30 million reasons each year.
The_Question - December 9, 2010
Pujols or Morales will make a helluva LF'er
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
we lost CC and Q
worse day ever
DAD OF VLAD - December 9, 2010
ahhhh
the alphabet is disappearing too quickly.
stereoscopic - December 9, 2010
Apparently the offer given to Crawford
was Hunters deal with an extra year added to it. Then they added a 7th year with a vesting option. So we lost out on Crawford because we didn’t want to give up another 3 million a year. Oh well.
angelskid2210 - December 9, 2010
If this is true, 7 years - $108m
Then the reality is that the Angels were never serious about signing Crawford.
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
It was 6/108, with an 18 million dollar vesting option for a 7th.
So it could have gone up to 7/126 if the option vested.
~MMP~ - December 9, 2010
Thanks for the clarification
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
It would have been serious if it was offered the minute we could talk to Crawford
Before the Nationals gave a crappier player more money.
Any idea when the offer was made? I’m assuming it was in the last few days.
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
Have no clue.
Just stated the offer. But to me it seems he was never serious about coming here and just used us to get a higher contract from somebody else. Gotta love being the Stepchild.
angelskid2210 - December 9, 2010
Funny
Let’s play Name That GM.
Halotosis - December 9, 2010
"What a complete waist of money!"
That’s from OTGM. It seems like a lot of their fans have similar sentiments regarding the cost and just how many productive years they’re going to get out of CC.
Here’s to waisting money!
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
Angels seem pretty good at wasting money. The difference....
the players we waste money on, are on other teams or shit canned and out of the league.
angelskid2210 - December 9, 2010
One of my Red Sox friends felt the same
Yes, I have like 2 that I haven’t alienated yet.
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
Haha.
Hopefully they spell better than the poster quoted above.
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
Makes no sense
The Halos apparently offered $18m per year, and the Sox approximately $20.4m per year. Both the Angels and Sox apparently offered 7 years.
So let me get this straight: $2.4m per year is the difference between a good deal and a bad deal?
As for Crawford’s productivity falling off after year 4 or 5: he is 29 years old right now. His most productive seasons are in front of him. His game (singles / doubles) is suited for Fenway park. Additionally, he’s not GMJ with only one good season under his belt. Baring a career ending injury, the odds are that his production will remain solid (no material drop) over the term of the deal.
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
It'll either be succesful or a bust.
We’ll only know when we know, then we can pat each other on the back.
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
Before stating the odds
I suggest looking at an aging curve first.
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
How's this one
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
Looks like Crawford's most depressing years are also ahead of him
Suboptimal - December 9, 2010
LOL
Classic response.
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
Who could possibly expect him to manage to live on 2.4 million less per year
LanaBanana - December 9, 2010
PITCHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sign Lee & Soriano, then trade Santana and whatever it takes to get Zimmerman from the Nats!!!!! Please, No Beltre! If we get this guy be ready for the second coming of GMJ, well, maybe not that bad. He’ll give us 2 maybe 3 good years and then we’re stuck with him for 3 more. not a good signing!!
Angels Angel - December 9, 2010
What do you do with a Beltre with one ball?
Pitch him inside and walk the rhino.
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
i thought about zimmerman too. but it seems like the nats are onto something.
Tony Hui - December 9, 2010
Who told them?
rmhalofan - December 9, 2010
in my opinion
we may as well show our hand. We can either trade our prospects to try to be competitive this year or we can rebuild, right? Why not bring up Trout? Are we gonna let another one marinate away in the minors? Let’s see what he’s got. At 3B, why not see if Naps can handle it? He’s obviously no Beltre but he’s another power stick in the lineup. If he cant handle it, no harm, no foul, no $100mm out the door. You can fall back on other affordable options of Callaspo/Izturis at 3B. Let’s see what Bourjos does with a full year under his belt. I think Izzy can lead off IF he’s healthy.
Eh….or you could pay Beltre and offer Lee 50% ownership. Who knows.
autry's cowboys - December 9, 2010
I'm just gonna say it....
I don’t think Crawford ever really wanted to come to the Angels. The Angels were preparing another offer and the Red Sox just swooped in and nabbed him before hearing the new offer? I believe that once again the Angels have been used as pawns to drive up the price on the Red Sox and the Yankees. We have become big enough to be considered a threat, but not big enough that the big names want to come here. We wouldn’t even have had VLAD if our owner wasn’t LATINO!
firebird81 - December 9, 2010
Ugh
Money talks, and bullshit walks. The Angels came to a gun fight with a plastic spoon. The offer Arte made to Crawford would have been great in the 2008/2009 free agent market, not the 2011 season market.
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
wait wait wait....plastic spoon or a spork? we need to be specific here
autry's cowboys - December 9, 2010
A spork with the prongs broken off
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
Had to be a spork.
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
Yes, it was a spork
mustard_man - December 9, 2010
I'm usually a front-office apologist, but...
this is stupid not getting Crawford.
Although, I pretty much expected a quiet off-season anyway and I didn’t buy into the “Angels are leading the Carl Crawford sweepstakes” hype at all.
With that said, let’s go win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Downing Rules - December 9, 2010
I think we're all forgetting that there is another
free agent left handed 29 year old left fielder, and he will come much cheaper. ME!
besides being white, we’re pretty much the same player.
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
Judging by the outline of that shadow,
Crawford has you well beat in another area as well.
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
thought I covered that difference
when I said “besides being white”
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
I LLOL'd
RexTookMyStash - December 9, 2010
I am so laughing at this exchange
Only at HH—got to love it
(Btw, 2pob, where’s the ball?)
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
it's in his glove, silly.
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
yeah, its in the glove
where its supposed to be.
you probably can’t see the ball though since I just bought a softball glove, which is ginormous.
here’s a picture of my glove after I took it off and set it down
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
You're missing a finger
You freak.
WiHaloFan - December 9, 2010
LLOL!!
its so big I can fit my pinky and ring fingers into one, but just barely
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
TWS...
Nah, I’ma let that one go by. ;)
Commander_Nate - December 9, 2010
sign lee, trade aybar and santana and couple other prospects for jose reyes. give woody another chance. yes i just said that.
Tony Hui - December 9, 2010
besides, cc was an injury risk. his unorthodox swing might get messed up by hatch
Tony Hui - December 9, 2010
Ho-Hum
Crawford would have been a nice addition, but they need Beltre more. 20 million a year sure sounds like a lot for a player who has never hit 20 HRs, and who has drawn in excess of 50 BB exactly once in his entire career. If giving this much money to Crawford would have precluded the team from maintaining its starting rotation (specifically, Weaver and Santana) in a year or two, or from upgrading at other positions, then I can’t really fault them for not breaking the bank. For that much money, I’d like to see someone better than Crawford, or upgrades at multiple positions instead.
On the other hand, I do agree with the sentiment of frustration expressed by others, specifically in regards to Moreno’s promises to spend money to upgrade the team. If you’re going to talk the talk…
jjackflash - December 9, 2010
It really makes no sense
when you consider there is a Del Taco within one hour of the hotel.
raskul - December 9, 2010
There's a Boston fan at my college
a little hunchback dwarf fellow—nice guy, student, I bs with on occasion about the Sux.
I’m going to kick him.
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
Give him one for me.
WiHaloFan - December 9, 2010
Does he have red hair?
angelslogic - December 9, 2010
No
But his poor little dome is always encased in Sux finery, so I’m not sure
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
in the nuts
autry's cowboys - December 9, 2010
my Boston buddy
just sent me an email telling me he requested to be paired with my in our monthly golf tourny tomorrow so he could gloat all day.
thank fucking god I am not playing tomorrow
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
whoops
my = me
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
Easier to nail him with an "errant" ball now
a la Spiro Agnew
Raaddad - December 9, 2010
I see a pattern
Two years in a row, we’re promised a big splash and we end up signing an aging Yankee hitter (Abreu & Matsui). This year was supposed to be a big splash again. So let’s hope that Marcus Thames has a monster season.
BP Scanner - December 9, 2010
Granderson!
rmhalofan - December 9, 2010
Listening to 1070 on the freeway just now and
They announced The Yankee Report. They actually called it that.
It was just an update on the cliff lee situation; Yankees added Nother year to their previos offer and Texas desperately trying to hang onto him are meeting with him at his house in arkansas.
Lordy. Almost makes me feel sorry for texas.
Almost.
opiejeanne - December 9, 2010
this is what I'm picturing
as Nolan pulls into Lee’s driveway
Mrs. Lee yells, “honey! Nolan Ryan is here, want me to get the lube?”
Cliff: “I’m not using any lube”
Mrs. Lee: “but honey, Nolans been good to you, and you went to the WS with him just a few months ago. you should take it easy on him.”
Cliff: “I SAID I’M NOT USING ANY LUBE!!!!!!!!!!”
2pintsofbooze - December 9, 2010
Lawlz
SenorChuckles - December 9, 2010
Terry Smith is on am 830 right now!
firebird81 - December 9, 2010
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