First the facts: J.P Ricciardi's pronouncements that he will need to be blown away by an offer for Roy Halladay all smack too much of posturing for the best deal. One can be confident that the Jays are going to trade Halladay and already have offers in place.
The Angels are in the hunt and Arte Moreno's public pronouncements are a reminder that he has the cash to spend and the desire to win.
NOW THE SPECULATION: Philadelphia looks like the favorite, Texas has the best prospects, The Braves, Yankees, Dodgers, Rockies and Giants all have their possibilities.
The latest rumors posit Toronto asking the Angels for Joe Saunders, Brandon Wood, Erick Aybar and a prospect for Roy Halladay. I have it on excellent authority that Erick Aybar is Arte Moreno's favorite Angel so that deal would have to substitute Sean Rodriguez to work and I believe Saunders might be the best major league ready pitcher that will be offered their way.
Believe it or not, major league teams function differently than fans posting on the internet. They place more value in a 28-year old proven middle rotation All Star than in a AA arm or infield bat on the bubble, no matter how many "Top Prospects" awards he receives from blogs around the world. With that in mind, understand that if Tony Reagins tries to force Ricciardi's hand, he may get Halladay for Saunders, Wood and S-Rod.
No matter what package any of the contending teams puts together, there is little talk of someone comparable to the major league track record of Joe Saunders that will be made available to the Blue Jays.
And then a prediction: At this juncture in the Trade Deadline process, I have to believe that Roy Halladay will be on the mound for the Angels in the Metrodome on Friday, July 31.
UNLESS: Could the Ninja Reagins be using the Jays as a pawn to get a better deal for Cliff Lee? Saunders straight up for Lee? Does anyone dare play the mighty JP Ricciardi for a fool? Playing a GM is a delicate game as people in the business do not like to be toyed with - is the Ninja mastering a game whereby he measures the job-longevity potential of an on-the-bubble Ricciardi and breaks an unwritten rule of backing out too late in order to make a better deal? Can Reagins safely operate under the assumption that JP will be jobless before the Angels might ever need to deal with the Jays again? Can he get the Jays to commit to a deal, turn around and nab Cliff Lee while preventing JP's BJs from dealing Halladay to an AL opponent?
Don't ever count out what Tony can cook up at Del Taco or in the Toronto front office.
0 recs | 70 comments
(source)
AlanFalcon - July 26, 2009
To clarify, this is yesterday's news.
But some good flavor to show how JP is playing things.
AlanFalcon - July 26, 2009
I notice that your source doesn't name his source for the story, and
it sounds an awful lot like the Ken Rosenthal comments cum rumor.
opiejeanne - July 26, 2009
It was in a fan shot yesterday
Also, Tim Brown, a different columnist, and Jayson Stark, are now saying similar things. The Halos are hearing it will take something along the lines of Saunders, Wood, and Aybar, which does not a happy Arte Moreno or Tony Reagins make.
Clutch - July 26, 2009
Er, those three, PLUS prospects
Clutch - July 26, 2009
I saw it yesterday
and it was still unsupported. It’s a rumor, and we discussed how it’s nonsense in another post yesterday, one of the many. I don’t remember which one, but someone started out saying that Edes is full of it.
The other two guys are probably quoting the same non-source.
It’s a rumor, started by someone who read Ken Rosenthal’s article and misunderstood it.
opiejeanne - July 26, 2009
Who names sources?
That would really inhibit your ability to break stories in the future.
hauldog - July 27, 2009
I say be sure to pick up Lee or Halladay whatever it takes.
To make it harder for the Sux to get one of them.
But that’s just my Red Hatred speaking.
AlanFalcon - July 26, 2009
If this deal gets done...
Reagins must resign Figgy before the end of the year… Blow him away or we will get blown away next year without a third baseman… thoughts?
trojanangelfan - July 26, 2009
Nah, let's keep Quinlan at third
He’ll be fine. :-D
Clutch - July 26, 2009
Matt Brown or Freddy Sandoval...
Can use the spring to audition for the job if Figgins isn’t resigned. Otherwise, Adrian Beltre is a FA after this year. He may not be the same guy from the Dodger years, but the man still plays gold golve calibur defense. With the emergence of Morales, Napoli, and Rivera’s consistent offense, offensice production can be slightly over-looked for a veteran with a great glove and a little pop on a two year deal.
matt92130 - July 26, 2009
Here we go haha
TheAntiSox - July 26, 2009
The best way to lose a good offense is to start replacing people with weaker hitters thinking you can absorb the loss of production.
snowhor - July 26, 2009
I think we're fine the way we are.
Best team in baseball the last 2 month. If it ain’t broke, DON’T FIX IT!
Chone's Chonies - July 26, 2009
Completely disagree...
Pitching wins championships. We gave up 4.5 runs per game against the Red Sox last year in the ALDS. That’s when our pitching was at their best, Lackey, Saunders, and Santana. Now that Santana and Saunders are struggling to find their groove, it think it places more exphasis on the fact we should pursue another #1 to compliment Lackey and Weaver. In a 5 game series, we would pitch:
Game 1: Halladay
Game 2: Lackey
Game 3: Weaver
Game 4: Halladay
Game 5: Lackey
That’s pretty nasty… meaning, you’d have to beat Halladay or Lackey twice, which I can’t see happening.
matt92130 - July 26, 2009
0% chance cleveland would ever do lee for saunders straight up
no chance
ihearhowie2.0 - July 26, 2009
What would either team get from that trade?
Wouldn’t we be essentially trading a lefty for a lefty, just different types of pitchers? Other than the economics factor, I just don’t ever see why cleveland would do this without getting additional prospects/players back in return
HaloFanInDC - July 26, 2009
well, we would get the reigning cy young winner
and they would get a guy who has been downright awful for the last 5 weeks
ihearhowie2.0 - July 26, 2009
Sounds like a fair deal to me.
Of course I may be slightly biased.
Honestly, does anyone have the run down on Lee and Saunders contracts?? That would help a lot.
Really, all of the available pitchers. I know Halladay has a contract through 2010. What about Kazmir, Lee, Bell, Downs, and whoever else might be available. Bedard and Peavy are on the DL so I don’t see them moving.
matthiasstephan - July 26, 2009
mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
anaheim angels - July 26, 2009
trade them, it will better our chances this October
the last couple years battles with Boston were on the mound, so we need someone who can match their pitching. Losing these three wouldn’t hurt the team from getting where they should have been the past couple years and haven’t shown themselves as valuable playoff contributors. Halladay betters are chances to get to the World Series
VladdyG - July 26, 2009
the reasons we sucked against boston in october
was because of the offense. we couldn’t get sh*t on the offensive side.
JoseGuillenSux - July 26, 2009
because of BoSox pitching...
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
But our starters only gave up 2-3 runs per start in the playoffs
Other than that 2-run bomb Lackey gave up to Bay in Game 1, he was pretty much perfect. What more do you want? Santana was fine, too. Weaver, as we know, was spectacular out of the pen in Game 3. Lackey gave up something like 2 runs in Game 4, and it wasn’t enough. We had the best closer in baseball on the mound in Game 2, and he happened to have a bad game, perhaps because he just sucks against Boston in the playoffs.
Is Halladay really going to be that much better?
Clutch - July 26, 2009
The point being
If this club can’t score runs in the playoffs, it doesn’t matter if our starters throw a no-hitter—we’ll still lose.
Clutch - July 26, 2009
right...
Aybar didn’t get that bunt down because it was an amazing pitch…
TheAngelsAngels - July 26, 2009
So does everyone now remember why they hate Aybar :D
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
I don't hate Aybar.
If our game (or season) comes down to laying down a single bunt, we aren’t playing well enough.
matthiasstephan - July 26, 2009
if it wasnt for Aybar in game three......
there might not have been a game 4 for him to blow
norcaliangelsfan - July 26, 2009
A day late...
If you saw this trade proposal at the beginning of the year what would you do? Halladay for Saundo/Wood/Aybar/and SP prospect. Damn I know I would do this trade but Aybar has gotten hot, Wood is the angels future :/, and Saundo is struggling. So take away on Aybar from that deal and I hope we can offer Saundo/Wood/S.Rod/O’Sully. This should cover the Aybar part of the deal. I dont buy the Angels out of the Halladay sweepstakes, they are just playing hardball go and get him Tony.
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
hey all... checking in for the first time in a while now
and Cnl./Wood/S-rod/o’sullivan sounds absolutely perfect. make that deal now!
AnaheimHalos61 - July 26, 2009
Rev,
I loved this comment: “…Believe it or not, major league teams function differently than fans posting on the internet….”
opiejeanne - July 26, 2009
Figgins is apparently a favorite of Sosh and he is having a great year,
so you have to guess that they are going to resign him. Then, now we learn that Aybar is a favorite of Arte. Thus, there is nowhere for Wood to play (unless HK is moved and Figgy is resigned to play 2b). Thus, it would seem possible that Wood would be moved. He still has not proven that he can hit major league pitching (though i know his chances this year have been sporadic and minimal).
I could live with Wood, Saunders, and SRod for Halladay. Though, next year assuming that Lackey leaves, we would be left with a rotation of Halladay, Weaver, Santana, O’Sullivan, ? so we would need to either resign Lackey or buy/trade for another another quality #2 or #3 starting pitcher during the off season. We don’t know if Santana is going to be back next year or sitting out with TJ surgery. Plus, Weaver seems to have lost his mojo the last month and we don’t know if he is a #2 pitcher or a #4-5 pitcher. I would never have the stomach to be a major league GM there are so many unanswered questions in any trade and one move can make or break your team for a decade. I am glad that I can just second guess on the blog.
tanana40 - July 26, 2009
Dont forget the FA pitchers this offseason...
Harden, Marquis, Penny, Washburn, Bedard and Wolf we could sign one if Lackey leaves. I dont know about you but any of these can be a good # 2 in rotation. I think O’Sully has to be in the Halladay deal tho :(
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
The three prospects I have heard floating around are...
Reckling, O’Sully, and Borjous.
halofan4life - July 26, 2009
O'Sully
Is actually pretty easy to give up. Although he’s the top pitching prospect, he will never be an ace.
He’ll probably always be a Brad Penny type- good to have but not someone like Doc who can pretty much lead us to a championship with Lackey and Weaver.
TheAntiSox - July 26, 2009
yea O'Sully aint a power pitcher. and i like me super fast strikes...
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
Well....
That’s what she said
TheAntiSox - July 26, 2009
ohhh you nasty ;)
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
Lol
TheAntiSox - July 26, 2009
I still say sending Wood away is fatal
Though I can’t put my finger on why…it just shouldn’t be done.
Clutch - July 26, 2009
why is it fatal? we’re not using him at all.
We have figgy and aybar in both or his positions. We could move woods to the outfield but in exchange for having halladay pitch twice against boston is a chance id take. Prospects come and go. It’s not like moreno is the pirates. We will acquire any free agents in the offseason that we need. Of course its more expensive, but Moreno can see how talented this team is. Look what we’re doing with our 5 best players suffering injury problems
robi s - July 26, 2009
I would hate to lose O'Sully
and I’m not that impressed with the crop of FA pitchers for the offseason. Marquis has never been nothing but a journey man before this year, Bedard is struggling, Wolf is 33 and just above average at best, Harden has an ERA of 4.76, Penny isn’t getting it done with Boston, and we all know Washburn has struggled since leaving Anaheim before rebounding this year. Again, if we get Halladay, then we will have holes to fill and yes, as Clutch just said sending away Wood is a risk. Being a GM is tough, real tough.
tanana40 - July 26, 2009
why are we assuming lackey leaves?
robi s - July 26, 2009
I would want to have a committment to get Lackey before trading 40% of my rotation for Halladay
I think many people around here assume that Lackey will walk. I would think it is 50/50. My guess is that he is going to finish strong and will demand a good contract particularly in the free agent class that is listed above.
tanana40 - July 26, 2009
Anyone worried that come October it will be a cold Vladdy in the # 4 spot...
and not Napoli…
Kinda like Howie got the call when he was cold last year? Ugh…what a dilemma. Too much talent.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - July 26, 2009
Why are a lot of folks opposed to trading prospects?
I am a big fan of Brandon Wood, but he has not proven at the major league level that he can consistently contribute. He is a prospect at this point… nothing more. Additionally, Scioscia loving Figgins and Arte loving Aybar seals the left side of your infield, and leaves Brandon no where to play. I believe Howie is better suited as an Angel 2nd baseman at this point rather than trade bait for a #3-5 starter. He could defintely fetch one, but why when there are numerous options available in house or via free agency. 1st base is locked with Kendry. So in my opinion, you have to use these prospects to shore up other weaknesses on your club. Deal from excess.
Why not trade Reckling, O’Sullivan, or any other picthing prospects? Someone will step up. Did anyone believe Matt Palmer would step up this much for us? No. How about O’Sullivan? No. We have Trevor Bell, Matt Palmer, Jordan Walden, Anthony Ortega dying to answer the call for the 5th slot next season, and occasionally due to injuries, the 4th spot.
I do think we need to sign Lackey to a new contract and I would award him with a 4 or 5 year deal. I’d like to keep Weaver and trade Saunders instead. I don’t care that he is a Boras client. You deal with that when the time comes. If Santana does have surgery this off-season and he’s lost for next year, wouldn’t you feel better knowing Halladay, Lackey, and Weaver gives you opportunity to win every time out? If you feel the need to bring in a 4th starter if Ervin is down, think free agents like, Harden, Garland, Padilla, Bedard, Davis, ect.
Here is my next season club… while being realistic:
1. Chone Figgins (3rd base – resign him at 4yr/$36M)
2. Bobby Abreu (RF – resign him to a 2yr/$16M-$20M)
3. Mike Napoli (DH)
4. Torii Hunter (CF)
5. Kendry Morales (1st base)
6. Juan Rivera (LF)
7. Howie Kendrick (2nd base)
8. Erick Aybar (SS)
9. Jeff Mathis (Catcher, until Hank Conger is ready, hopefully mid 2010).
Bench 1: Matt Brown (1st/3rd/Corner OF)
Bench 2: Macier Izturis (2nd/SS/3rd)
Bench 3: Gary Matthews Jr. (4th OF)
Bench 4: Reggie Willits (5th OF)
Bench 5: Bobby Wilson (I am a fan of carrying 3 catchers if one is a DH)
SP1: Roy Halladay (Try to extend him for 4-5yr/$80M-$100M)
SP2: John Lackey (Resign John at 4-5yr/$65M-$80M)
SP3: Jered Weaver
SP4: Ervin Santana (If injured, Harden, Garland, Padilla, Bedard, Davis, ect.)
SP5: Competition (Bell, Walden, Palmer, or Ortega).
BP1: Darren Oliver (Resign him and pay him another $3.5M)
BP2: Scot Shields (Hope he returns from surgery in form)
BP3: Kevin Jepson
BP4: Joe Beimel (Sign him as a FA from the Nats at 2yrs w/ a 3rd option/$4M-$6M)
Set-up: Jose Arredondo (Possible set-up, along with Shields)
Closer: Brian Fuentes
What’s changed about line-up besides Vlad being gone, not much. We’re carrying on just fine without him. If you want, resign him at a discount of course, and Naps catches most games again, and Willits is optioned to the minors.
But the biggest changes are on the mound for us, adding Halladay through trade, which does not dramatically alter our MLB club. Possibly signed a 4th starter. Opened the door for our young ptchers to learn from the best, Halladay and Lackey. Shored up our bullpen with a strong lefty in Joe Beimel.
And finally in closing (My apologies for the length), trade Brandon Wood, Joe Saunders, Sean Rodriguez, and Trevor Reckling for Roy Halladay.
matt92130 - July 26, 2009
Good shit.
it makes sense, I would sign Vlad (he wants to stay an angel), sign Lackey and Figgins (since they are both very much respected by the players and fans). Jepsen and Arredondo are the the 7th and 8th guys. And if we need to sign a pitcher Id take Harden. Halladay for Wood/Saundo/S.Rod/Reckling make a damn good proposal, hopefully tony can see that.
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
Great depth
Good post.
Sethy - July 26, 2009
Excellent post.
opiejeanne - July 26, 2009
Hit the nail on the head with the post
JoseGuillenSux - July 26, 2009
I stopped reading at this point
When has he gotten the chance to prove this?
norcaliangelsfan - July 26, 2009
Captain Obvious...
That’s the point. Until he does have the chance, all he’ll be is a prospect for us. Especially considering who loves Figgins and Aybar.
matt92130 - July 27, 2009
Jays are looking to unload wells
That’s my guess. It may be their only chance. So how does halladay and wells for b wood, saunders, reckling, sarge jr, and bourjos sound? Keep in mind the tens of millions still owed to wells and how that would hamstring our fa hunt for years…
rghan - July 26, 2009 via mobile
Well what a coincidence
We are looking to unload GMJ. But it won’t happen.
TheAntiSox - July 26, 2009
Jays are looking to unload wells
That’s my guess. It may be their only chance. So how does halladay and wells for b wood, saunders, reckling, sarge jr, and bourjos sound? Keep in mind the tens of millions still owed to wells and how that would hamstring our fa hunt for years…
rghan - July 26, 2009 via mobile
if we took on wells' contract, theyd probably give us halladay for robb quinlan
they would be shedding like 40% of their payroll
ihearhowie2.0 - July 26, 2009
you heard it here tony, Q for Halladay and Wells
Wells you be a great bench player for the angels not like that useless fellow.
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
The Wells contract is the WORST in baseball
No way we take that on.
Moondoggy - July 26, 2009
idk he can hit HRs, GMJ can do nothing.
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
Wells number have been declining since h inked the deal
and GMJ isn’t making this kind of paralyzing scratch:
10 – $21MM
’11 -$23MM
’12 -$21MM
’13 -$21MM
’14 -$21MM
Moondoggy - July 26, 2009
Holy Cow! Who was the GM who made that deal?
opiejeanne - July 26, 2009
that would be the same one trading Halladay
our good friend JP
Moondoggy - July 26, 2009
hah!
our good friend J.P. indeed…
SenorChuckles - July 26, 2009
seriously he's the Isiah Thomas of MLB.
norcaliangelsfan - July 26, 2009
That's right
This is the last opportunity for jp to have any sort of leverage in moving this deal, so I suspect he’s really trying.
I AM NOT advocating that we do anything like this – I like our chances standing pat – just speculating on what the jays hope to acheive.
rghan - July 26, 2009 via mobile
I don't think Ninja can play JP for a sucker here
JP is putting a 7/28 deadline on this thing because of the details that need to be worked through the no-trade clause.
Moondoggy - July 26, 2009
No trade clauses aren't hard to clear up
JP “Doc will you got to ________”
Doc " Yes, or No"
That conversations happens long before a trade is even made.
hauldog - July 27, 2009
Tell that to the White Sox *cough*peavy*cough*
red floyd - July 27, 2009
Cough Cough?
He said no and that was that. It is not a time intensive process. That is all I am pointing out.
hauldog - July 27, 2009
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