7:05 PM Tonight at the Big A sees JASON VARGAS face JOHN LACKEY.
So for lunch, let's talk about Lackey. If he can lead the way to a playoff run yet again, c'mon you want to spend a decade watching guys with names like Tyler lead this club? Lackey has been the aceiest ace we have had in a pretty long running round of poker. Seriously, what will his market be and will the Angels even get in the bidding thie Winter? Should they?
0 recs | 31 comments
$20M per year is his market. Yes, they should get in on it.
Ok, even if we have to go with a guy named Tyler, we could just call him “Ty” for short. Heck, when he wins a Cy Young award, we will call it a “Ty” Young award.
Downing Rules - May 29, 2009
There is no way he is a $20 million arm...
In this market, $15 million is closer, and the number of years shouldn’t go beyond 4.
Should they bid on him? Only if he proves he is healthy this year. No more missed starts, no more tendinitis – just outs and a low ERA.
And he should refrain from talking – he is one goofy Mo-Fo.
jimmuscomp - May 29, 2009
I love Lack.....he's the man......
but I dont see paying a pitcher 20 mil a year……..when the last two years he’s missed a good amount of time with injuries……..
I’d say we offer him 15 mil a year for 4 years………and throw in some incentives for innings pitched/games won/K’s whatever……that could get him up into that 20mil a year range.
norcaliangelsfan - May 29, 2009
Let him go...
We got other pitching and at his asking price, i dunno if its worth it. Let me REMIND people the guy has started the two seasons in a row on the DL.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 29, 2009
Here's an interesting secondary question...
If you had to choose between John Lackey and Doc Halladay, who would you take? I believe the Doc is a few years older than Big John, and I assume he will be seeking CC Sabathia-type money. Lackey will possibly be a little bit cheaper but not much. …My heart says go for Lackey because he is one of the last remaining connections to our ’02 ring and he is obviously a great teammate and an awesome pitcher, but my head says Halladay because the guy is quite simply the most dominant starting pitcher in the gamre today. What do you think? Is this even a reasonable conversation to be having? Is it a foregone conclusion that Halladay (and maybe both Halladay and Lackey) will end up in pinstripes?
KennyKatella - May 29, 2009
is halladay a FA next year?
cuz if he isnt then why ask this question….?
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 29, 2009
Good point...
he’s locked up until 2010:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/toronto-blue-jays_05.html
Downing Rules - May 29, 2009
i dunno... i'm really torn
i’d love to think he’s invincible and one of the best pitchers in the game, but he’s really not. he’s a very, very good pitcher, but not one of the most dominant (save for 2007). he’s started 2 season in a row on the DL with arm issues… that’s not something you want to commit $20MM/yr to.
howiestheman - May 29, 2009
2010...
…but the Jays are supposedly entertaining early trade offers to maximize the value they get in return. I would think that a team that took him in a trade would try to make the deal contingent on signing him to an extension.
KennyKatella - May 29, 2009
Yeah, ask the Angels how that worked out with Mark Teixeira.
Downing Rules - May 29, 2009
I read yesterday
that the Angels offered ceecee 140 mil last winter. I sure hope Lackey doesn’t hear about that.
blochead - May 29, 2009
Well, now he did...
Thanks a lot…
red floyd - May 29, 2009
no he definitely did and i remember him saying something to the press...
that alluded to wanting similar money. Thing is, Lackey has been injured two years in a row. That doesn’t make ball clubs want to offer big money.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 29, 2009
Lackey needs to prove it before I would give him another dime beyond this season.
mattwelch posts some of the best posts and states this subject far better than I do… Lackey Not So Thunderous
That said…Nick’s death may have cinched whether we are forced to be a player in the sweepstakes.
Lackey is 30 years old and has won > 14 games ONCE in his career. I don’t think that makes him worth $20M. Sorry John.
K3YEROUT - May 29, 2009
uh...NO...your facts are wrong buddy...
Lackey has won 14 games twice (2004, 2005) and 19 games in 2007.
Check your STATS
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 29, 2009
I think k3 meant
that only once has he won more than 14 games.
halofan4life - May 29, 2009
ah, i automatically assume 14 or more. Still, its a dumb thing to look at....
For it can often have nothing to do with how he pitched. For example, Lackey pitched a CG last year but loss. How many runs did he give up? One—a home run in the bottom of the ninth.
Or how about the game Greinke lost against us for giving up one run on three hits or something? You need to look at more than just how many W’s he has had.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 29, 2009
i wanted to save these words till after last nites game.
The points you have made about Lackey’s past years are good commendable points. And I know it’s only been four starts, but after four starts last year we were stoked because big John was back. As of right this very moment, I would rather have Matt Palmer pitching every fifth day then to have Lackey take the hill.
Last year at this time his ERA was around 2, right now hes at 6.05.
halofan4life - May 30, 2009
didnt mean to post so quick
Everything seems close to average for him except for his k/9 is down and his h/9 are up. I understand that it is still early in the season, but if this trend continues over the next couple starts, I will unable to see it getting better
halofan4life - May 30, 2009
If he gets Burnett money than NO
hauldog - May 29, 2009
OT kinda
Jason Vargas graduated from the same high school as me.
and there’s your fun fact for the day.
howiestheman - May 29, 2009
Any relation to Circus Vargas?
Downing Rules - May 29, 2009
Ah, I see… he’s from Road Apple Valley; aren’t you up in the High Tundra?
Downing Rules - May 29, 2009
Payroll capacity
A number of Angels players will be free agents after this season. As such this will open up payroll capacity. (2009 salary info sourced from espn.com)
Vladimir Guerrero……….$15 million
Kelvim Escobar…………$10 million
John Lackey……………..$10 million
Chone Figgins…………..$5.775 million
Bobby Abreu……………..$5 million
TOTAL : $45.775 million
The flexibility in payroll after this season provides the Angels with some interesting options as they will have the means to make offers to premier players. If the Angels cannot or choose not to re-sign any of the above players listed, I’d like them to aggressively pursue:
Jason Bay (career .282/.377/.522)
Nick Johnson (career .274/.399/.457)
NOTE: neither player is a Scott Boras client
You can review the complete free agent list here
Fan Since 1981 - May 29, 2009
Nick Johnson can never stay on the field
i’d take my chances with Bay or maybe even Adam LaRoche
howiestheman - May 29, 2009
No to Johnson
We have Morales at 1st.
I would make a run at Bay if we can.
billhune - May 29, 2009
He'll want a better deal than Burnett
Assuming he doesn’t suck this year he can make the valid argument that he’s a better pitcher who’s less of an injury risk, although he can’t realistically put himself in the Sabathia class.
GoAngels! - May 29, 2009
What he wants and what he gets will likely be different
Being injured in his walk year likely means he can’t manipulate the market like other players did this year.
I’d go 4 years, $56m base. Player option for a 5th year based upon year four performance.
mustard_man - May 29, 2009
I concur, but think this is now his ceiling.
We still have an economy to consider. Still have market realities (which I bookmark because I keep re-reading that thread and believing the contents more and more).
And, unfortunately for John, all baseball games still come with a 5th inning.
Stirrups - May 29, 2009
Like most of our major free agents the last 5 years or so
Im already considering Big John gone
HaloDutch - May 29, 2009
agreed.
Downing Rules - June 1, 2009
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