...live by the knuckleball ... die by the knuckleball...
7:05 PM Tim Wakefield @ Matt Palmer
The topic for lunch today is your solution for the Angels bullpen. What to do? How to do it? When to do it? Is it NOW or NEVER? Will Loux be the odd man out of the rotation or Palmer in the pen?
Has the league caught up to Arredondo? Is Shields adjusting or fading?
0 recs | 64 comments
WARNING
Another Premium Game tonight.
I think Loux will go to the pen, since Palmer has been doing well in the rotation. As far as what else is to be done, I think Soth still has to figure out what he has at this point, so he has to keep putting guys out there as he has been doing. My only suggestion would be that he consider the score when deciding how much leash to give a reliever; when our lead is slim, I’d like to see him pull a reliever early rather than late.
I know that these guys have to work through their problems, etc., but we also have to stop blowing leads as often as we have been.
rspencer - May 13, 2009
Loux to the pen
Not because I think Palmer is so much better, but because I think ultimately Loux is best served as a swing man, especially with his ground ball tendencies. If Palmer’s Cinderella story can continue somehow, leave him in there even when Moseley comes back. If he comes back down to Earth, send him back to AAA to keep him stretched for if and when we need the depth again.
Arredondo seems like hes really struggling with his command this year. Last year he would throw bb’s right at the corners. This year his wildness looks Frankie-esque. With stuff that nasty, I guess you have to expect some fits with wildness, and considering he is still relatively new to pitching, I’d say hes just going through an adjustment period, coupled with the fact that the league is being more patient when facing him. He is still striking a bunch of guys out, and I think he should be fine.
dmhead - May 13, 2009
Caesar or blue cheese.
Oops, wrong lunch thread.
I think the solution for the bullpen is caesar or blue cheese.
Mayheminthehood - May 13, 2009
Of course I caesar
She’s right in front of me!
rspencer - May 13, 2009
Keep Palmer in rotation for now
Send Loux to pen, not only did Loux do okay for us last year in the bullpen, Palmer is the better starter right now.
Of course, he should be on a tight leash, when the Cinderella story ends, swap them.
gilbert - May 13, 2009
Sometimes there are no solutions
Sometimes your goddamn team just sucks
(Still pissed about last night)
Higz - May 13, 2009
Rec'd
Completely agreed. Yesterday was embarrasking.
scareduck - May 13, 2009
I was at bar in LA
And had to listen to jackasses cheer for the Celtics comeback and then the Red Sox comeback. Drained any happiness I had from the Ducks victory. But seriously, why are there Bashtin fans in LA? It still confuses me.
linkbruin - May 13, 2009
I hate LA
HaloDutch - May 13, 2009
So Cal's the Melting Pot of Melting Pots
Almost everyone in the U.S. dreams of moving out to So Cal (or at least L.A.) and some point in their childhood. Of all the major cities in America, I would bet that L.A. has the highest per capita rate of non-born-and-raised peeps.
rockerhud - May 13, 2009
its not really a 'melting' pot
when everyone maintains their previous culture and affiliations. Theres a lot of nonnatives in so Cal, sure, but theres little assimilation.
HaloDutch - May 13, 2009
Yes and No
Holding to old cultural values happens yes. But I wouldnt say that LA has zero effect on a person’s values or beliefs. Theres a lot of trading off of ideas, cultures, dress, foods, values, etc etc. Theres no one value to “assimilate” to, and thats the problem in your assumption. The standard is a cosmopolitan one; theres no one dominant system. Thats the best thing about it.
linkbruin - May 13, 2009
that sounds about right
I like all the various cultures coming together in one spot. I dislike Bashtin jackasses. Oddly, I’ve only encountered them in bars.
linkbruin - May 13, 2009
*only in bars
linkbruin - May 13, 2009
That's because
As werewolves need the full moon, Bahstin jackasses need alcohol.
rspencer - May 13, 2009
someone's gotta drink all that Sam Adams
HaloDutch - May 13, 2009
Escobar as Closer?
I’m curious why there has been so little consideration to use Kelvim as the closer when he returns? With Loux and maybe Palmer or Moseley in the pen, Angels can probably reduce the use of Shields, Arrendondo and Fuentes until one or more of these guys overcome their shakiness. We have enough good starters, but the back of that blowpen really needs help!
CALiforniAngels - May 13, 2009
Agree Completely
I think the Soth’s biggest weakness is using his team’s strengths into the best possible playoff team.
Last year for example he had the choice of the 3 man rotation for the playoffs or the schedule that would have required 4 starters and he inexplicably chose the 3 man rotation even though Jered Weaver > than just about any 4th starter EVER.
The Angels already have 3 dominant starters out of Lackey, Saunders, Santana and Weaver (who seems to have stepped up like Santana and Saunders did last year). That is MORE than enough starting pitching for the playoffs. Put Escobar back in the bullpen where he is needed. Or gasp… trade him to a team that needs starting pitching desparately for a few arms.
The Angels have failed miserably over the years of turning their extra talent into things they actually do need.
MH252525 - May 13, 2009
Especially now that Weaver is becoming even better
So much talent languishing in the minors, might as well get something in return for it.
Big Bad, 'Vlad'! - May 13, 2009
Careful what you ask for
This was the organization that got NOTHING for Bobby Jenks, Derrick Turnbow, and most recently, Darren O’Day (and this latter due to an administrative screwup).
scareduck - May 13, 2009
Yah, I was wondering why he was on Texas, and not returned to us. He was rule 5'd
Big Bad, 'Vlad'! - May 13, 2009
I kind of agree
Except I don’t think they should use Escobar as the closer, but moving him to the pen as an 8th inning guy should work…at least until when/if Shields gets his shit together. I still like Fuentes in the 9th. A rotation of Lackey, Santana, Weaver, Saunders and Palmer (until Moseley returns) would still one of the best in the majors. Escobar and Loux would help straighten out the bullpen, or at least give Scioscia better options.
WiHaloFan - May 13, 2009
Fuentes too soft for closing?
I guess I’m just not comfortable with depending on a guy with “soft” pitches who must have command on pitch locations to close out games. IF Escobar comes back and still has his fastball in the low to mid 90’s, I’d feel more comfortable. I like Fuentes as the lefty option in the 8th, unless Shields or Arrendondo really improves.
CALiforniAngels - May 13, 2009
Soft? What do you mean "soft"?
Escobar had one full year as a closer and he had a 4.27 ERA that year (ERA+ 109), while Fuentes has a career ERA+ of 139, WHIP of 1.248 and allows fewr HR. BTW, Escobars ERA+ is 112 and 1.374. At his best, I don’t think Escobar is anywhere near as good as Fuentes (as a closer), and I don’t think Escobar will be at his best when he comes back. To put him is such a critical role after not pitching for more than a season would be a bad decision.
WiHaloFan - May 13, 2009
... in the weaker league ...
That 139 ERA+ was earned in the NL.
scareduck - May 13, 2009
All depends on his health
If its like 2005, where the team knew he couldn’t get back in time to be a starter, then I agree that he should just be in the pen where his usage can be limited to high-leverage situations. If he shows he is healthy and capable of giving us 7 innings or so every 4 days, then you absolutely stick him back in the rotation. Starters who strike out a guy every inning don’t grow on trees, ya know. Despite Saunders’ and Weaver’s starts this year, they are not dominant but very good. A healthy Escobar is dominant, and opening a playoff series with him, Lackey, and Santana looks alot more imposing than replacing one of those guys with Saunders or Weaver.
dmhead - May 13, 2009
A couple more weeks of shenanigans and then its time for drastic changes
I’m very concerned, but it’s not time to start to push the bullpen panic button.
Palmer stays in the rotation
Shields is fading indeed, we need to start using other players more in his role
Dondo is fine, he’ll work it out.
Fuentes is fine, he’ll work it out.
swiss mcgee - May 13, 2009
Shields has patellar tendinitis
and has been pitching through it. Put him on the DL at the first opportunity.
scareduck - May 13, 2009
The solution to the pen is to get the starters healthy
This lets the spot starters move back to middle/late relief. Then we can all return to the days when we whine about the closer.
Stirrups - May 13, 2009
I loved those days
Higz - May 13, 2009
This is the camp I'm planted firmly in
If you ain’t got hope, you ain’t got nothin.
ReggieBullits - May 13, 2009
i loved dondo at the begining of the season. i really thought he was going to dominate and be a rising star. i hope he recaptures that. but i think he is toast.
shields had great stuff last night. started 0-2 on a lot of batters. he needs to mentally not yeild any ground when he gets there.
fuentes is ok. just not frankie. he will blow some saves. i just hope he doesnt do it in the playoffs.
loux to the pen. speier needs to figure his shit out. he is the key i think.
kingfish - May 13, 2009
Thinking...
Dondo needs some time at SLC to get his confidence back…just sayin’
K3YEROUT - May 13, 2009
Shields
needs to work things out at a mental hospital.
clover_black - May 13, 2009
"Wizard of Oz" solutions...
1) Get Bulger and Arredondo come c-c-c-c-courage to throw the ball over the plate again.
2) Get “Tin Man” Shields some new brains…or at least a new therapist.
3) Get “Scarecrow” Fuentes a little more heart.
Don’t bother looking for Dorothy…Billy Mac promised a “special ride” back to Kansas for little miss pigtails.
sothball - May 13, 2009
rec'd
very nice
Sorbo182 - May 13, 2009
Bulger did fine yesterday.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 13, 2009
OK...then he needs....
more c-c-c-c-c-consistency.
sothball - May 13, 2009
Perfect. That's the way I wanted to explaine it.
The bullpen don’t play mad. They need a little more attitude like the Lollipop Gang
eyespy - May 13, 2009
What is left on Shields' contract?
halofan1 - May 13, 2009
A lot
Don’t know the specifics and too lazy to look, but I remember he reupped last season for long term.
ReggieBullits - May 13, 2009
Changed my mind.
Extended in 2007 through 2010.
Scot Shields rhp
3 years/$14.6M (2008-10)
signed extension with Angels 3/07
08:$4.25M, 09:$5M, 10:$5.35M
ReggieBullits - May 13, 2009
Shields will work it out.
He seems to struggle in inning two. Keep him in for an inning or even an inning and a third…but if he gives up that leadoff walk or hit then yank him.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 13, 2009
Like Steve Finley?
cupie - May 13, 2009
Wait, Steve Finley pitched?
I dont get your comment, Cupes.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 13, 2009
i think he's saying
how many opportunities is scot gonna get until sosh gets the clue that it don’t work anymore. finely was in the lineup everyday ’til it was discovered that he simply was not going to cut it anymore.
SCHalo - May 13, 2009
oh, thanks SC. In that case...
I think Scot should get just as many as Speier did last season. Scot has proven himself to be a good pitcher over and over…maybe hes over the hump and no longer effective but its gonna take Sosh all season to figure that out.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 13, 2009
Trade Aybar for Bullpen help
Wytelitning - May 13, 2009
I like this idea.
Trade him for a quality arm. Someone young enough or with enough upside to last. And someone who is having a good year NOW.
Big Bad, 'Vlad'! - May 13, 2009
Not to mention nobody here would complain about...
Tits and Woody splitting time at short.
Wytelitning - May 13, 2009
Ding Ding Ding
winner
Captain Awesome - May 13, 2009
NO. Dont trade Aybar just because you are all impatient and have wood for Wood.
We have a huge amount of pitching in our organization. And when Erv and Lackey comes back, the bullpen is going to get even more help. Loux goes to the pen and when Moseley comes back he either goes to the pen or Palmer does. That helps with long relief.
Short relief? If this short relief implosion continues then we have Rich Thompson (who is killing it in SLC right now), Jepsen, Daniel Davidson or even Robert Mosenbach who all have the talent to be possibly effective in the bigs.
Also, if were going to trade for Aybar, then we deserve more than a middle reliever. Aybar is young and we probably haven’t even seen his full capability. Not to mention Aybar is batting 421. over the last 15 games. Problem? Hes only scored 4 times. Sounds like thats the problem of our other batters driving him in and not Aybar.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - May 13, 2009
They should try pithing better
short of that, for the love of God trade someone.
HaloDutch - May 13, 2009
sigh. Pitching better.
ruined my own damn joke
HaloDutch - May 13, 2009
...yeah...when I make mistakes like that I get really pithed-off...
sothball - May 13, 2009
Enough of these pithy comments
Higz - May 13, 2009
I thought addition by subtraction
Was going to solve our bullpen problems from last year…
BBFan1 - May 13, 2009
Matt Palmer = Aaron Small?
Palmer has no track record that would warrant anyone to believe that he could perform this well consistently in the majors. But hey, he’s looked really good so far. I say leave him in until he falters and overreact to his first bad start. Even bad major league pitchers can get hot for awhile.
I still think Loux will ultimately be the better option for the rotation. He is nothing special, but his groundball rate is really really good and he actually is a pretty good major league 5th starter.
Spird - May 13, 2009
word.
HaloDutch - May 13, 2009
My thoughts
Palmer stays in the rotation, initially. Loux to the pen.
When Moseley returns, assess. Is he ready to go to the rotation or better in the pen?? How is Palmer holding up?
When Escobar returns, assess. What do the docs say?? Can he pitch 7/8 innings, 100 or so pitches on 4 or 5 days rest, with results?? Or is he better out of the pen??
When everyone is back, see who is pitching the best and keep them. The rest to the minors or trade bait or whatever.
Don’t give up on Dondo, Shields, or Fuentes. They have good stuff often. Don’t lose faith folks.
matthiasstephan - May 13, 2009
I think that
We should do rain dances when we are leading after the 6th inning so that all of our games get rained out and then we don’t have to have our bullpen make appearances.
3eyes - May 13, 2009
I hear they have a version of that in the Dodgers parking lot...
…I think they call it the yellow rain dance.
sothball - May 13, 2009
We should bring nothing smaller than a 10 run lead into the 7th
And then hope the mercy rule takes effect.
linkbruin - May 13, 2009
Arredondo
From everything I read last year, Frankie was Arredondo’s confidant and mentor. Maybe the young man has lost some nerve without Frankie around.
vladtheimpaler - May 13, 2009
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