Halos Heaven

I tell ya…GMJ would play well in the NL

Of course.

It’s AAAA.

Rivera still cold as ICE!

:(

Yeah. He's like the one regular who really hasn't looked good this spring.

Hence,

…he will start the season on fire!

No...

He’s just gonna allow Soth to justify starting GMJ early and often.

Wytelitning - March 17, 2009 reply

ouch….

Heh. Eckstein starts a rally.

Why does THAT sound familiar?

It's good to see Chris Pettit having a nice spring after getting knocked around in Double-A.

Not good seeing Fuentes give up home runs to lefties

Wytelitning - March 17, 2009 reply

closer by committee................

w00000000

Screw that.

ET in the closer role. He’s looked great this spring.

IN CELEBRATION OF ST PATRICK'S DAY....

let’s turn this thread GREEN!!!!!

bored eh?

stuck in Romania - March 17, 2009 reply

Yeah...

stuck in “Office Space”

sounds like someone has a case of the

Tuesdays………….

“I got a meeting with ‘the Bobs’ in 5 minutes.”

"So you've been missing alot of work lately"

“Well, Bob… I wouldn’t exactly say I’ve been missing it!” (all chuckle).

lol indeed........

“Damn it feels good to be a gangsta!”

its actually

gansta……….haha…..one of my worst typo’s ever on here.

“Ridin around town in a drop-top benz
Hittin switches in my black six-fo”

I helped........

lol

Is everyone else wearing A's colors today?

It’s the only day of the year where it’s OK to wear green.

And the added bonus is...

it’s not even regular season yet, so nobody could confuse you with being an A’s fan.

Crap...hadn't thought of it that way! :((

Watches Fuentes get knocked around by the Padres

Eyes K-Rod schooling people in the WBC

sighs

Good news....

He still has a few weeks to iron things out. Stay positive.

tis march......

when Fuentes is giving up walk offs and go-ahead homers in the ALDS more so than Frankie…….then I will join you in pinning for him……..

Dang ... lost in the shuffle of greenage...

i really truly meant to recommend this. Nicely put.

When Fuentes has a world series ring

you can pretend they’re equal. Not before.

Never said they were equal......

but just because Fuentes gets knocked around in a meaningless spring training games……doesnt mean he’s any worse of a closer than Frankie was.

Correct. The statistical fact that he's a worse closer than Frankie

is what makes him a worse closer.

You mean the decrease in his WHIP over the last 3 years each year....

compared the to increase of Frankies over that same period of time?

and fuentes pitches in a worse pitchers park than frankie......

Yeah, over in AAAA

Meanwhile, K-Rod destroys Fuentes in ERA, Losses per Appearence, Save %, and WPA.

And before you start talking about playoff records, you might at least look up Fuentes. 7 earned runs in 9.2 innings during the Rockies 2007 run with 2 homers given up, good for a 6.52 ERA.

LOL compared to Frankies 54.00 ERA in 2007

and 7.71 in 2008?

Compared to his 3.31 career playoff ERA?

3.13, my mistake.

So obviously the Halos did the smart thing........

because the last 2 postseason series…….He’s pitched more like Dustin Moseley……….than the 2002-2005 Frankie………

Again I say…….we’re no more worse off this year…than we were last.

I see nothing obvious about it.

He’s had a whole 2.2 innings the last two seasons.

We are far worse off with Fuentes on the mound than Franky, whether you see it or not. The only question is whether the other clubs are going to stay close enough to us for it to make a difference.

Wait so we get a closer........

walks less batters per 9 innings…..

K’s more batters per 9 innings…….

Only has an ERA of .5 more than Frankie pitching the majority of his games at Coors……..

Who’s WHIP has consistantly decreased over the past 3 seasons (again pitching at COORS)

all the while Frankie’s velocity is down…..walks up……K’s down……WHIP way up…….

and you dont see anything obvious there?

Well then……I guess stats are wrong……why do we even bother using them for anything?

So we take the 32 year old AAAA player

who happened to have a career year…

over the 27 year old guy who knocks him cold when it comes to actual production from the closer spot,

who blows fewer saves per opportunity

loses fewer games per appearance

while pitching in tougher situations on average

and contributing more Wins according to fangraphs

The only thing obvious to me is that while your stats have no real import in terms of games won or lost, and based entirely on one season

While my stats measure actual outcomes of games in terms of blown leads and losses, and have held true for the past four seasons the two players have been closers on their respective clubs.

The real sad thing is that the 32 year old player seems to be getting better

while the 27 year old is declining………

Are you saying that the individual stats of each closer have no sway in the outcomes for their teams?

Because Fuentes stats lead me to believe that given the same type of consistant chances at Saves that Frankie got………

Fuentes will perform just as well….if not better

I agree with you, but ZL does not.

LOL thanks.....

Im just looking at it like I think the FO is……obviously the feel like Fuentes can do as well as Frankie did…..otherwise they woulda made bringing Frankie back priority 1….and would have given him whatever money he wanted….

There's a conversation between Zu and myself...

that goes out this far on the screen in another thread, saying quite the same thing. I personally think that Fuentes’ Loss % is inflated by injury in a time when he lost four games in a row. Also, he comes into a lot more tied games (something Frankie RARELY does) and so the LOSS percentage increases.

But, Zu has his numbers and fangraphs to back him up. So he makes good points, but there are certainly a lot of indicators that say GREAT MOVE, but some others that say NOT GREAT MOVE.

My research has led me to think that the great move indicators are slightly greater than the bad move ones.

Yeah I was looking at that too.....

Frankie pretty much only comes in when its a save opp….and thats it…and based on his GP and his INN pitched Frankie pitches 1 inn and thats it…….

69 GP last year…and 68 1/3 IP….

Fuentes meanwhile had 48 GP and over 62 IP…..thus obviously he avg more than 1 IP per apperance.

That was a manager preference

rather than a commentary on K-Rod’s ability.

Scioscia did the same thing with Percival most of the time, and will likely treat Fuentes the same way. For K-Rod’s ability to go beyond one inning, one need only look at the WBC, where he’s had two such appearances in the space of a week.

On a different note I’m not sure where you got 48 GP. ESPN.com says it was 67 Games, 62.2 IP, which would obviously be an average of less than an inning.

I already responded to the comment about Fuentes’ injury elsewhere, but I’ll do so again here. If you use his injury as an excuse for the losses, then I think you’d have to excuse K-Rod’s April 2008, which was responsible for his lowered K/9 rate and his lowered average velocity.

I have yet to see a stat backing up Fuentes coming into more tied games than K-Rod. It’s certainly not impossible, but I’d like to know what the actual numbers are.

I have never argued that this move was bad financially, or really even tactically unsound. Fuentes will in all likelihood be just fine at closer. It is unlikely that the quality change will make a difference in where we finish this season. My point is simply that there IS a quality change, and I really feel that people who say differently are fooling themselves. K-Rod dropped in a few peripheral stats due largely to a poor start to the season (see earlier note on injury). By the end of the year he had regained both his strikeout rate and his velocity.

Fuentes had a career season last year, marking personal bests in K/9, ERA, and Opp OPS. As a 33 year old, the chances that this season becomes his new standard of play are rather small. The chances that a 27 year old whose production was otherwise unchanged brings up a couple peripheral numbers are much better.

Zu Long - March 18, 2009 reply

Data

2008:
Frankie 4 ties
Fuentes 10 ties

2007
Frankie 8 ties
Fuentes 7 ties

2006
Frankie 8 ties
Fuentes 4 ties

2005
Frankie 9 ties
Fuentes 9 ties

Downing Rules - March 18, 2009 reply

So in other words

It was once again only last season where Fuentes pitched in a lot more tied games, and over the past four seasons, the totals are nearly identical?

Zu Long - March 18, 2009 reply

Yes, so we save $3m and get more draft picks.

verdict: Angels win. (now start saving some games doggone it Fuentes).

;)

Downing Rules - March 18, 2009 reply

Actually,

Fuentes was a type A Free Agent just like Frankie, so we don’t gain any extra draft picks (They are slightly higher up in the draft order though). The difference, as you say, is a few million dollars.

I really wish we’d have just let Dondo close. That would have made more sense than signing a different guy to slightly less money.

But yeah, I hope Fuentes does great. And you won’t catch me freaking out and shouting that the sky has fallen if he struggles a bit at the start of the season. Just don’t expect me to buy into some myth that we wound up with a better player for less money.

Zu Long - March 19, 2009 reply

Give up...

ZL is a Fuentes basher and has already made up his mind that he is not going to do as well as Frankie. He might be right, but he might not be.

I dont mind discussing things like this with Zu....

he knows his stuff…..he might be right about this……I dont know….but just from looking at the stats….and the trends Im seeing…….I just think Frankie isnt gonna be as dominate as he was……

And Fuentes will be servicable…….(today nonwithstanding)

We’ll see whos right after the year I guess

No, I agree, we need people on both sides of the argument to round things out...

here’s the previous thread, and you can see some stats I pull up further down the line:
http://www.halosheaven.com/2009/3/8/785560/daylight-savings-spring-fw#12880455

Yeah I remember reading that...

Im not sure why I didnt join in on that…..

Fanpost coming...

if I can finish in time.

Awesome :)

I feel "basher" is an unfair characterization.

I haven’t bashed him once. I haven’t said he sucks, that he’s worthless, that he’s lazy, that he’s going to destroy the team, or made any other comments degrading him either as a player or as a person.

I HAVE made up my mind that he isn’t going to be as good as K-Rod, because to me all available evidence says that he won’t be. I’ve also made up my mind that Morales will not be better than Teix, that Garland will not be better than Lackey, and that Hunter will not be better than Vlad. I might be wrong about any of those, but I can’t make any other prediction given what I know.

Zu Long - March 18, 2009 reply

7-7 Way to go Woodie!

Doubles!

C’mon Brownie!

Wood is awesome and needs to play in the majors.

Did Fuentes give up all 7 runs?

no but he gave up 5

Woohoo 9-7

Brownie doubles in two more including Woodie!

another 0-3 for rivera

ughhh

slow starter......

like Timmy perhaps?

what inning is it now? and what's the score?

sgdavis73 - March 17, 2009 reply

Top 8.

9-7 Good guys.

hahaha rex huddler

hahahaha
its the top 8 11-7
coon hit another one out of the park

HR Brad Coon

jjackflash - March 17, 2009 reply

nice job Coonster

LOL.

Dude has like 3 homers in his umpteen million minor league at bats, but has two this spring.

12-7

Ervin mini-update

Linkie

The club is being careful with Santana, who reported elbow discomfort and was shut down. “Ervin’s going to take it slow,” Scioscia said. “He has started to play catch again. There’s a lot that has to happen from right now before he’s going to play in a game for us. Right now, it’s baby steps, but he feels much better.”

another halo victory

Light up the cacto-puses.