Halos Heaven

BOTG=Frankie

i’m not drinking the frankie haterade either but he’s supposed to be the best at what he does.

SCHalo - August 13, 2008 reply

Clearly "Mr. I Deserve To Be Paid More Than Any Other Closer" gets the blame on this one.

snowhor - August 13, 2008 reply

Against the worst team in the league, to boot.

scareduck - August 13, 2008 reply

Agreed

he gets 2 botg in one for this

off topic

anyone know how to embed a yoitube vid?

$15 mil/yr gets the BOTG

gorams77 - August 13, 2008 reply

like your sig

K-Rod.

He does his job, Speier doesn’t even get a chance to give up a meatball.

red floyd - August 13, 2008 reply

still the strangest

of all the lose pictures…
i suppose thats a good representation of frankie though

Exhibit one in argument for:

CLOSERS ARE OVERRATED. GIVE TEX HIS CASH.

cardinalwraith - August 13, 2008 reply

agreed

seconded, thirded, fourthed, fithed, ..... you get the picture

6th'd

7thed, 8thed, 9thed, 10thed, 11thed....

12thed, 13thed, 14thed, 15thed….

and guess what??? i’m not bugging out on my closer. i said he was bad from day one. and then regreted it. and then realized i was right from the beginning. and can’t wait till all you haters start hatin’.

NoDakHalo - August 13, 2008 reply

I'll Drink 2 Dat cardinalwraith

No brainer on the reason why they lost tonight.
Fing-Rod

i'm already gonna retract some of that statement...

he isn’t bad, but he isn’t as good as many people think. he is what i like to call “replaceable.” let me make this clear: i do not hate krod, i’d just rather have teixeira. if it were possible to extend both, i’d be all for it.

NoDakHalo - August 14, 2008 reply

Dear Teix

Don’t hit any more clutch home runs for the Angels.

We will just lose the game right after you do it anyway.

Thanks Anyway,
Scott K.

Dear Teix

Please disregard CKOD

Thanks A Lot,
Kevin F.

Dear Teix

…what he said.

I think you’re awesome,
Matt T.

howiestheman - August 14, 2008 reply

How's Brittney doing?

Higz - August 14, 2008 reply

You knew this was coming....

<VOICE type=“emo-kid”>
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!
</VOICE>

red floyd - August 14, 2008 reply

K-rod Gets it

He was throwing batting practice tonight

WillGoAngels27 - August 13, 2008 reply

gotta go with KRod

dis-honorable mention to Justin

ladybug - August 13, 2008 reply

F-Rod by a mile

Maybe getting too comfy with those one out saves.

Justin was just being Justin, circa ‘08

kdoc - August 13, 2008 reply

A wise man once said:

“A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link”.

An angry man once said:

“Justin Speier, if I ever see you as much as sniff the dirt on the mound in a tight game in an Angels uniform again I will personally re-enlist you in the Marine Corps and fly you to the closest war zone, drop 4 nuclear bombs on your ass and leave your charred carcass behind as a reminder to future mediocre relief pitchers the world over that this shit will not be tolerated in the fair city of Anaheim”.

Phew. I feel better now. Thanks HH. Frankie should probably take the blame for this one but Howie sure did blow it in the 7th. Bonehead.

ReggieBullits - August 13, 2008 reply

What if

the link is the very last one on the chain, and the thing you’re holding on to is linked to the second-to-last link in the chain?

That’s sorta what Speier is. That last piece of chain, holding on to nothing, mattering not at all.

It's a chain.

And a chain by definition is a series of objects connected one after the other. Therefore the weak link is connected to the whole regardless of it’s position and will affect the whole when it fails.

ReggieBullits - August 13, 2008 reply

I know what you're saying. I was joking.

Visualize what I’m saying here, though. If you have 80 links in a chain, connected to the ceiling, and you’re supporting a grand piano with it, and the piano is connected the the 79th piece of the chain from the ceiling, with the 80th dangling in excess, perhaps resting on the piano, that last, 80th piece, serves no purpose. Like Speier…dangling in excess with no purpose.

It was a joke.

I get it.

But are we really discussing metaphorical chain hypotheticals? Too many icals makes my head hurt.

ReggieBullits - August 13, 2008 reply

Good thing we have a 15 link advantage.

OUTSTANDING

Rev

ReggieBullits post should go down in the HH Hall of Fame.

It is so well said that it just killed the whole thread. I mean what is there to say in regards to the worst Angel game played this year

It's NOT the first time Speier has done this. I quit yelling about him after April because nobody could hear me.

44FAN - August 13, 2008 reply

They were too busy booing K-Rod for wanting all this money he earned, see...

Earned

works out to what Zu?

About $140,000 a save opportunity by the time the seasons over
That is good wages.

Also brings the boo birds out when you don’t get the job done that your paid a great deal of money to do.

Cheaper than your boy Nathan. ;-P

And the boo birds seem to have been out since last year. Kind of buzzard-like, almost.

Not over the same period

Come on be real Zu. Your better then that!

F-Rod’s going to be more $$$ over the same period.

That kind of depends on the new contract Nathan gets in 3 years, doesn't it?

No

Nathan is signed through 2011 with a club option for 2012.
09:$11.25M, 10:$11.25M, 11:$11.25M, 12:$12.5M club option ($2M buyout)
So he is signed for another 4 years. Taking him through his 37yr.

With the numbers F-Rod is talking about (5yrs / $75mil) That would be like $16mil more over the same 4 years then toss another $15mil on top of that for F-Rods last year of his 5yr contract and we are talking $31mil. Nathan is not going to catch the number.

So that takes us back to …..
F-Rod’s going to be more $$$ over the same period.

Assuming that Franky gets 5 years/$75 million, you are correct.

Haha. Thanks man.

ReggieBullits - August 14, 2008 reply

Speier

I tried to stay positive when he came in, but deep down….. I knew we were Doomed

Me too......I just sat back and waited for something good when I knew it would ruin my night by watching.

acuda27 - August 14, 2008 reply

Speier

Come on, he’s a nice guy and all…but…he has been a gascan all season long.

If K-Rod got the save, he would get one nomination for Panther.

But since he blew a save, everyone is on his ass.

BBFan1 - August 13, 2008 reply

Seriously

Speier needs to quit goofing around with his goddamn impersonations and start getting about his pitching. He effing blows this year and no amount of jokes is going to endear me to him.

Higz - August 14, 2008 reply

That's kind of how this whole panther/blame thing works.

Do something good, get nominated for panther. Do something bad, get nominated for blame.

Howie the Wowie Kendrick

Just to spread the love a little.

And of course Tex for not hitting his third homerun when he had the chance. Slacker.

vladtheimpaler - August 13, 2008 reply

Lucky Loux

Can we see him throw more? I know he has better stuff then Speier!

I think Speier and GMJ should share a locker and keep there shit in one pile.

I want to see Bulger.

I want to see Jessica alba

But hey, to each his own. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

vladtheimpaler - August 13, 2008 reply

Jessica Alba FTW

I would take my chances on a save

To see Ms. Alba come on for a save in the 9th wearing that outfit on the Sin City cover. Booonnnnngggggg. I give her Panther even if she blows it.

vladtheimpaler - August 13, 2008 reply

Only a Panther

I would think you would be willing to give her almost anything it she “blows it”

Salt Lake City

Southwest flies there all day

F*** Rod

mjhsieh - August 13, 2008 reply

How did Dondo blow a save?

In the box score it says Dondo and Shields blew the save, yet from what I can see Jose got the two batters he faced out, so how is he on the hook there?

Matt UK - August 13, 2008 reply

Was on the mound when the tieing run scored.

That’s how it works.

Ah

So he allowed an inherited runner to score, gotcha. Hard to tell exactly what’s happened from the box score!

Matt UK - August 13, 2008 reply

NO NO NO HOWIE KENDRICK allowed the inherited runner to score with his dumb ass play.

Should have been an easy double play and the moron threw double clutched home then ended up throwing to first to get the 2nd out while Izturis pulled out his hair yelling for Kendrick to throw him the ball so that they can get out of the inning with a 3-2 lead. Even Santana got pissed off when he saw dumb ass BLOW the “EASIEST DOUBLE PLAY OF 2008”

Yes Im a little pissed at Howizle even though he is one of my favorit Angels.

acuda27 - August 14, 2008 reply

Shazzzzzzzam

That is why a save is crap..

Had the run not scored (HK DUMB) then it is credited as a HOLD. He wouldn’t get a save! But when the run scored he gets a blown save (BS) That will make for great ttopic when F-Rod doesn’t sign and people say “Dondo had X amout of Blown Saves. Which at that time I will once again have to say its BS

And yet I'll bet you let people get away with quoting 5 blown saves on K-Rod every time for the rest of the year.

Man Crush

You got it bad!

I don’t say that at all. I have spoken many times with you about how I think the job of a closer is highly over priced. I value the strong back of a pen but not at that price that is being tossed around. I am quicker to say Dondo is a legit replacement. I use what I see for the evaluation. Not all about stats. Stats don’t play the game.

Dondo
throws strikes with plus movement on the FB, can control both sides of the plate,command of the CHG, has split for out pitch, hard to square up a pitch, great poise for such a young age, gets LHH out as well as RHH, has thrown well on the road and at home, ability to pitch on back to back days out of pen,

Summation

All the tools for a dominant closer at the big league level.

All I said was I bet you let people get away with quoting 5 blown saves against Franky.

If you really believed any of that stuff you said back there about how it’s not the relievers fault if the defense blows it, you’d be just as staunch about insisting this is true for K-Rod as you say you’ll be for Dondo.

I’m at least even-handed about it. I told you it all counts the same to the saber-stats, and tonight is no different. I might have a man-crush on Franky, but at least I can admit the bias and have a method of dealing with it, namely relying on a stat that doesn’t take that bias into account.

Can you say the same? Will you defend your “defense blew it” ideal as strongly for Franky as you will for Dondo or will you do what so many do and let your double standard rule?

I said...

I did not say one thing about how he blew a save the other night. I find myself using more stat talk here online then anywhere else I go. Seems like the only thing that people think they have a understanding of. Me I am not the stat guy / bean counter.

Remember there is reasons that the guy gets on. Was the runner on because he was walked? Did that walk happen prior to the fielding error? There are some reasons that the blame will fall on the relief pitcher even if there is an error. Follow me with that? I know there is and has been many times that F-Rod has bailed himself out or the team, but he often has created the problem(s) on his own. Tonight was an example, and when it came time to man up he pointed the finger at someone else. Never liked those sort of guys. Now had he got tossed prior to being yanked and giving up 3 I would give him credit for standing up for his belief.

So when he argues only after it can't possibly damage the team

he’s being a huge baby. If he were to argue only when getting thrown out could hurt the team, then he’s “standing up for his belief.” Well, that’s one way of looking at it. I guess I just prefer the guy who, if he absolutely must argue, still puts the team before his own gratification.

As far as stats/stat guys go, I don’t really care. The question is whether you apply the same standard to everyone. K-Rod had a blown save earlier this year where the game is OVER if the player makes his play. If you claim Dondo isn’t responsible for his blown save, simple fairness says you apply the same standard to everyone. If not, it’s bias.

Stats don't play the game? Weird. What have I been watching then?

I find it hilarious that you've responded to every comment I've made except the one below.

Above, rather.

Tools Play not the damn stats.

Just thought I would give you another look at it.

Not sold on F-Rod since 2006. Liked what I saw in the Minors and his first few years in the league, but I think the league is catching up to him more and more each year. Thats my evaluation.

Not saying he can’t still be successful for another few years just not sold on him being what amounts to $14.5 million better per yr. then Dondo. We are talking about what $65-70 million more for F-Rod during the same time period.

So we bet it all on Dondo and hope he doesn't turn into a Betancourt.

Gutsy, but I don’t really have a problem with it. I have a problem with people hating on K-Rod, now, despite the fact that he’s been the best in the game the last four years, which is true whether you’ve been sold on him or not.

Here is the thing

When Gagne was tearing it up and saving everything in sight I was always saying the Dodgers needed to trade him and get product back. People (friends outside the game) thought I was crazy then. You can say what you want about his steroid use and all, but I was the lone wolf crying for the club to trade him for legit prospects and a couple current everyday players. They needed them!!

Late last year I spoke about how the club could probably trade Frankie away to the Dusty Baker Reds. Thinking was the club needed a CL and Dusty still has nightmares about F-Rod and the 2002 WS. My trade was for Josh Hamilton who would solve a lot of OF problems and help the team out as GA rides off into the sunset. I posted that on Oct 14th 2007. I also spoke about acquiring a prospect down on the farm that is a closer Enerio Del Rosario and maybe include someone else of excess for E. Encarnacion.

Me I would take Joe Nathan before F-Rod. Thats me though I could live with him and his contract (4 years/$47M 09 option $12.5) and feel good. The 5 year 75 mil that F-Rod wants is not easy to swallow.

I remember that topic.

Your proposed trade was a pipe-dream, IIRC. K-Rod, McPherson, Aybar for Dunn, Encarnacion, Hamilton, or something like that, correct?

No No

Never spoke of them. Just using F-Rod. Maybe an excess OF but never mentioned McMuffin. Why was it a pipe dream He was traded. Doesn’t F-Rod have value?

I spoke of this trade

in early Oct and he was traded to Texas in late Dec.

Zu I am not some yahoo fan.

I did toss around a few names of interest, but brought Hamilton’s name into it a few times and on other occasions through the off season.

No, I'm fairly certain of this...

Found it.

With Dusty Baker now the Reds manager and still remembering how Frankie made his Giants look silly maybe we can have him push for a trade. Reds have a few attractive options. Maybe the Reds pick up Dunn’s option and trade him along with say Edwin Encarnacion. Angels need a 3B and he is showing promise at the MLB level. Encarnacion is still young and not able to file FA until 2010. Maybe we take Josh Hamilton if he is clean he is a huge talent. Who is also another lefty pop guy that could fill a void. For a guy that did not play for 4 years+ he had good numbers and with a guy like Scioscia he would be fine.
So Rodriquez, Wood/McPherson, Aybar for Dunn, Encarnacion, and Hamilton.. Angels don’t need a bunch of Aybar, Izturis, Figgins, and Willits. Not saying I don’t like them, but the club does not need 4 of them.

So yeah. I’m gonna have to stick with pipe dream.

ummm...

that would’ve made a KILLER trade

howiestheman - August 14, 2008 reply

Wait. You think that's a trade Walt Jockety would've gone for a year ago?

Really?

no, not in the slightest

i’m just saying… since we’re bringing up the hypothetical trade situation, it hypothetically would have been amazing.

howiestheman - August 14, 2008 reply

Sure.

But it’s still a pipe dream. Never gonna happen.

Zu Long - August 15, 2008 reply

Another

I knew that part. There was another post I made about acquiring the closer in the minors and Hamilton. The above post was my first toss at Hamilton. Not a pipe dream 1st paragraph is about F-Rod for Hamilton and blah blah blah…….

Guess its hard to SABR that info though.

No, it's just hard to fathom a team that needed STARTING pitching as badly as they did trading

all those pieces for… no starting pitching.

I like that you gloss over how I was completely correct about the trade terms you proposed. Frankly, I was kind of proud of myself for remembering it.

Not all part

Looked at it as K-Rod and extra OF Reggie maybe, or Minor League Pitcher For Hamilton and lower level pitcher I mentioned earlier. I just knew that those guys were available. They now have traded Dunn and Hamilton. They ended up spending $$$ for a closer and traded Dunn and Griffey for what?

By the way Jocketty was not even a Red until the first of the year and even then he wasn’t the GM until late April of 2008. So how does he come into the situation at that time. Hamilton traded under Wayne Krivsky. Others on Jocketty’s watch.
Plug in …push restart

Right. And Krivsky trade Hamilton for starting pitching.

Really GOOD starting pitching. Dunn a year ago was worth way more than Dunn for 6 weeks. And however you say you were looking at it, what you actually said was K-Rod, Wood/McPherson, Aybar, for Dunn, Encarnacion, Hamilton.

Zu Long - August 15, 2008 reply

Ah tools. That ends my confusion.

All this time I thought I’ve been watching numbers divided by other numbers play, but this whole time it’s been hammers and wrenches on the field. How did this sport get so popular without using athletes?

http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/players/151063.html

Fan

Read up and maybe you will get the term “tools” Just don’t be one.

I'm aware of what tools are. I just think people come off as blowhards who think they're better than other people when they get on their high horse saying things like stats don't play the game.

Of course stats don’t play the game, they just measure the performance of the athletes who do.

snowhor - August 15, 2008 reply

Technically,

stats measure the performance of the atheletes who did.

Stirrups - August 15, 2008 reply

Hoo-boy

I wind it down, let it go, and come in here prepared to give it to Frankie, but seeing what people have posted…

Screw that. Blame to Speier. He keeps getting off the hook on these because they’re blown saves but sooner or later he should have to eat one.

He'll never get one

Stats be damned – I think Speier has a ‘dedicated fan club’ that protects him from any scorn, even if he just isn’t very good.

BBFan1 - August 13, 2008 reply

I don't think anyone's a fan of Speier.

But there are a ton of people just waiting to shove it in K-Rod’s face when he has a bad night.

Just would be nice

if he would say “I was not good today, but I will be better tomorrow and get my job done” Instead we had to watch him blame the ump for the reason why he was not able to get his job done. I think thats what bugs. I know it does me. I wonder if his family up in the sky (the ones he points to when he gets the save) thought this was the right way to react to being off his game.

Given the history of his family

They’re probably shouting encouragement to him while raining curses down at the dumbass umpire who needs some new eyeballs.

Too bad the fans here can’t say they have his back like that.

I like Speier

He did a pretty decent job for us last year. Appears his age has caught up with him. Havn’t heard anything about mechanical problems or such, so he may be done.

vladtheimpaler - August 14, 2008 reply

I don't think people sit here waiting to shove it in his face.

I think what happens is we see Frankie shooting off his mouth about being the best closer in the game and demanding to be paid as such without that fact being exactly, uh well you know, true.

He IS the best closer in the game over the last four years.

Last night doesn’t really alter that one way or the other. But I haven’t seen Franky shooting his mouth off anywhere about being the best closer. All we know are his supposed contract demands, which are right on level with what other closers at that level have been getting.

Zu Long - August 15, 2008 reply

Speier Yikes

Not saying he hasn’t been shitty. Just don’t think anyone really expects him to do well. F-Rod is expected to get his job done. This is the guy looking for the record and big pay day. Not to mention it was against the worst team in baseball

Not like he is in a lot of situations to lose games anymore. It was either him or the kid that was catching HS at baseball clinics 5 months ago. So Loux didn’t get the rock, and Speier did.

Said before

Regardless of everything that happened the Angels had the lead, and a win all but locked up. Frankie not only lost the lead, but left the game a loser tonight.

He is the goat tonight. Thats how this game is. A lot of what have you done for me lately. Just ask the stiff Balentien that was 0-4 with 4 punch outs before he hit the 3 run jack to win the game. Nobody gives a shit that he was an auto out for the first 4 AB’s

norcaliangelsfan - August 14, 2008 reply

In order BOTG

1. Dumb Ass Kendrick
2. Fuckin Frankie (August F-Bomb)
3. Piece of Shit Speier (Should only do Saturday FOX lineups which I enjoy)

What to do.

1. Howie had a “Brain Fart” (More like brain Diarrhea) but I forgive him cuz he’s a bad ass.
2. I dont give a shit if he leaves this off season even though I do like him, but if he wants to get paid 15Mil to pitch like shit, NO THANKS …...... Arredondo’s Ready.
3. This piece of shit just needs to leave with GMJ and never come back. he should go play in Japan since they love watching HRs and he sure knows how to give those up.

acuda27 - August 14, 2008 reply

F-rod

wallispdub1 - August 14, 2008 reply

Frankie gets BOTG, Speier should just be DFA'd

Also I really think Frankie is hiding an injury. He was throwing 89-91 most of the time with his fastball and he doesn’t throw a slider until he thinks he has to (ie the game is on the line) How bad would his arm have to hurt for him to admit he needs some rest with his FA looming in a couple months and with a big family to provide for ;)

MH252525 - August 14, 2008 reply

BINGO! You got it - the really issue about this game was Frankie's 89 mph fastball.

That should have people alarmed. Is he hurt? Is he tired? 89 on the FB is fine if it has great movement (i.e. Scot Shields when he’s on) 89 is also okay if you can paint the corners (i.e. Mike Mussina and a FB of only 85). But Frankie’s FB was straight as an arrow and usually down the middle. The FB is SO crucial to setting up the slider. All those hitters who flailed at the slider had to protect against Frankie’s previously excellent fastball.

I’m not a Frankie hater. I think he’s great………………but he’s great when he’s the real Frankie. Something is wrong.

Fan Since 1981 - August 15, 2008 reply

People that are blaming Howie forget he came back in the Bot of the inning and hit a clutch double

and later scored…....he atleast didnt let his one “brain fart” affect him negatively….....Frankie on the other hand…......imploded…..as did Speier…....but Im also throwing some blame Shieldsy way….....The entire Bullpen deserves BOTG tonight minus Oliver.

BOTG

Goes to Anderson, Kendrick, Shields, Speier, and Frankie. They can all share it.

FlyByKnight - August 14, 2008 reply

Frankie gets 2 Blames for this one

1 for giving up 3 just like that.

2 for robbing Sheriff Uhaul of his first Panther.

Zoe Necrosis - August 14, 2008 reply

As a matter of fact

Since Marky Mark and His Funky Bat can’t get the Panther, can I give him this?

Frankie, you get this:

Zoe Necrosis - August 14, 2008 reply

U-Haul

was better than Panther in this one.

Massive.

ViolaHalo - August 14, 2008 reply

How dare u call him U-Haul

vladtheimpaler - August 15, 2008 reply

is that racist?

howiestheman - August 15, 2008 reply

Absolutely.

“Haul” is a longstanding ultra-derogatory and hate-filled monikor used against people of “U” colored skin. Or is it the other way around? I forget.

Stirrups - August 15, 2008 reply

"U" is the derogatory term used for people with

“Haul” colored skin.

and as a person with “Haul” colored skin, I find this name to be offensive, tasteless and completely unnecessary. I will not visit this blog again until this hateful language has been removed, and I will spread the word to my fellow “Hauls”.

howiestheman - August 15, 2008 reply

U-Hauls have been around since before Tex was born

How dare people compare Tex to the Great, highly dependable company that has been around since, uh, a long time.

vladtheimpaler - August 15, 2008 reply

lol

howiestheman - August 15, 2008 reply

BOTG to Frankie "Take the money and Run" Rodriguez

I hope Speier gets leprosy in is pitching hand.

HaloDutch - August 14, 2008 reply

I think he already has leprosy in his pitching hand

that being said, K-Rod is the BOTG. Can’t blow a 2-run lead vs. anemic Mariners. Just can’t do it. Frankie just keeps putting guys on base.

hk47 - August 14, 2008 reply

Not sure

what is bigger news… the fact that the Angels actually lost a game or the fact that the Mariners actually won a game.

Scuff - August 14, 2008 reply

And the Mariners’ win total has finally tied Frankie’s Save total.

TheTypingFiend - August 14, 2008 reply

Yeah.

The Mariners Rock!

Scuff - August 14, 2008 reply

Maybe we should give the Mariners $15 million to close for us next year.