WHAT TO DO is our offseason feature examining a 2008 Angel player each day to discuss where the player fits in the club's plans for 2009.
Jon Garland is a free agent. He just turned 29. He made $12 Million in 2008.
Tell the Angels WHAT TO DO...
0 recs | 119 comments
Garland
was (Is) a very solid 5th starter despite the ERA that rose at the end of the year. He eats innings. Please look at the 4-5 starters for most teams if you don’t believe. See if he will take a home town deal, not sure what that would be. I would not get a bidding war for him, but I would try and keep him at a reasonable price. $12 million seems high.
tanana40 - October 8, 2008
$12 million is WAY too much for Garland
I think if the Angels had known how Santana and Saunders would step up in 2008 they would have kept Cabrera and found a #5 starter elsewhere. Imagine if we had O.C. at short in the playoffs. Hmmm…
In any event, the only way to keep Garland is at a MUCH cheaper price. Otherwise, gotta’ let him go.
10 27 02 - October 8, 2008
O Cab batted .150 or so for the whitesox....
I guess he woulda taking some of the blame of HK…. hmmm…
stuck in Romania - October 8, 2008
Sayonara Judy
The Limey - October 8, 2008
indeed
I actually liked garland, but moneys money and we want mark
ihearhowie2.0 - October 9, 2008
pat him on the back, thank him for his time and send him on his way
HaloDutch - October 8, 2008
Not for what he made...
He was a solid starter who did better than his numbers indicated for sure, but unless he’s going to take a hefty hit in pay (say, $5-7 million), I don’t think it’s worth it. Adenhart or Green, or even Moseley, could probably fill the gap for a while.
Kernel - October 8, 2008
peace...
it wasn’t that great knowing you…
haloforlife - October 8, 2008
Time to click yer heels and head on home, Garland
Thanks for all you’ve done, though
Chone's Chonies - October 8, 2008
Not for what he would cost...
I think Garland should take his services to AAAA. He would be more dominant in the NL. He’s come close to 20 wins a few times and over there he could probably do it. I’m glad he was here for ’08 but our money should go elsewhere.
Monkeyspanked - October 8, 2008
buh bye.
gdog009 - October 8, 2008
Let him go
Use that $12 million toward signing Sabathia, or paying Jake Peavy if the Angels can work out a trade for him (I heard that the Padres may be looking to trade him)
Roatation is then:
Lackey
Saunders
Santana
Weaver
Sabathia/Peavy
plus hopefully, you have a rehabbed and healthy Escobar as an extra starter, or you plug him in to the bullpen as the closer or 8th inning guy.
billhune - October 8, 2008
Just say no to signing another high priced starter
We do not need to lock up Sabathia or any other high priced starter for a long contract. As it is, we have Lackey, Escobar, Saunders, Santana and Weaver next year with Adenhart as the sixth starter. We do not need more starting pitching.
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
No Escobar
for most of the year. Not back until July at the earliest, and who knows whether he’ll be able to throw 100 pitches.
jjackflash - October 8, 2008
Escobar hopes to be ready by beginning of 2009 season
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2430
Original timeline was 9-12 months from last July. Even if he isn’t ready, we have Moseley to fill in until he is.
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
Don't count on it
I wouldn’t count on Moseley or Adenhart. Those two were horrible this year!!
dprice413 - October 15, 2008
I understood that Myspace...
might be in line to replace Frankie
Moondoggy - October 8, 2008
Laters
Let him go, especially if he’s going to be asking for at least what Lohse got this year and Silva got last year. For the number of innings he pitched and W/L one would think that he would be a type-A free agent so we should take our 2 picks and restock the system.
HaloFanInDC - October 8, 2008
Arbitration
If we offer him arbitration and he accepts, he likely makes more than $12 million next year.
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
I was just going to make that comment
You’re right, in order to get the draft pick the team has to offer the player arbitration. What if he accepts? It might be a pretty big gamble to offer him arb.
BTW, I think he’ll be a type B FA.
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
Eh
So what if he accepts? It’s still only a one-year deal, and that is the key. I’d be interested in keeping him for around 3 years, $25 million. But a one-year deal means that if he’s overpaid, it’s only a minor, short-term investment. And, it would buy another year of development for Adenhart, Green and others, none of whom is ready to be a major league starter. It’s either Garland, or some other free agent.
jjackflash - October 8, 2008
You make a good point
and I agree with you. The extra time for Adenhart and Green would be a benefit, especially for Adenhart to see if he’s for real or not. The way he pitched the last half of the year makes me nervous.
Kind of funny how an additional 4 or 5 million dollars is a minor investment.
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
3 years $25 million?
That’s crazy money for a fifth starter when we have Moseley who can provide the same level of production. And, $13-$14 million on one year deal for a fifth starter IS a lot of money (more than 10% of our payroll).
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
same level of production?
I don’t think so. Garland can be counted on to be league average for 200 innings. Moseley has never pitched that many innings, and if he did, I’d hardly call an ERA between 6 and 7 “the same level of production.” There is no reason to believe he’s better than that. And, it would mean a lot more innings for the bullpen.
jjackflash - October 8, 2008
Garland - 4.9 ERA and climbing
Garland had one good month which brought down his ERA to 4.9. Moseley didn’t have a great year this year but I think he’ll bounce back. It is crazy though to say that we should pay a fifth starter that much money when we have in house options that are much cheaper, especially considering that Escobar will at least be back at some point in the year.
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
No problem with him....
but given our other priorities, I’m fine with offering arbitration and letting someone else give him 50/4.
JAP - October 8, 2008
Send him packing
the dude is nothing more than a #5 starter and he will not sign for cheap so just let him go
angelskid2210 - October 8, 2008
And...
He’s soooooo sloooooooow when guys are on base! ;-)
dprice413 - October 15, 2008
Bye Bye Judy.
Hello Kelvim.
If Escobar can’t start, look from within or something young and cheap.
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
Judie ............Judie.............Judie
No thanks I pass. Let him walk unless he takes a home town deal for lot less. I don’t see that happening at all though.
There will be a team that tosses him some big money and I am sure Judie is looking for that last (guaranteed) contract.
Angel Aviator - October 8, 2008
2 yrs $15.0 max....
….or “see ya later alligator”
Jack Kerouac - October 8, 2008
I'm pretty sure he won't accept my 1 yr, $1 million offer, so...
… later, bro.
Remember, we get much-needed draft picks when we let free agents walk.
mattwelch - October 8, 2008
let tex, krod, chone, judy, ga, and juan walk
that leaves us with:
c – naps
1 – kendry
2 – howie
3 – woody
s – izzy
lf – reggie
cf – torii
rf – gmj
dh – vlad
bench – q, aybar, srod, etc.
sp – lack, kel, erv, joe, weav
rp – dondo, shields, jepsen, oday, etc.
and how many draft pics?
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
I don't like not seeing Tex there...
stuck in Romania - October 8, 2008
i wasn't being entirely serious...
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
i know.... i figured that.... that'd be an awful lineup
stuck in Romania - October 8, 2008
but it would be a lot of draft picks
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
Talk about rebuilding
halofan4life - October 8, 2008
Is that what John McCain would offer Matt?
Sinatrasratpack - October 8, 2008
well, with this weak economy
and this republican run government, i don’t see arte offering him much more.
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
When the
Congress is filled up with Liberals, they are running the government not republicans. People seems to over value the job of a president Congress makes the laws
Sinatrasratpack - October 8, 2008
Congress proposes bills, debates them, and amends them.
Once they are passed by both houses of congress, they are sent to the President of the United States to be either signed in to law or vetoed by the President. Only with the President’s signature do they become law or if he fails to sign or veto the bill while congress is in session. No bill ever becomes law without some action by the President. It is called our system of “checks and balances.”
44FAN - October 8, 2008
there is also the override of the veto....
…but since Bush is more liberal than most of congress, what difference does it make?
Jack Kerouac - October 8, 2008
You betcha, gosh darnit! The override requires two thirds majority vote of both houses of congress to reverse the Presiden'ts veto and make the bill a law.
I was trying to keep my civics lesson as simple as possible to understand for our friend Sinatrastatpack.
44FAN - October 8, 2008
thanks
for being so gracious as to keep it simple, I’d hate to see when you are being a condisending jerk
Sinatrasratpack - October 8, 2008
I am a liberal
Congress may be Democrats, but there are NO liberals there.
Rev Halofan - October 8, 2008
Amen, Rev.
Not a fuckin’ one of them is liberal.
I saved my F-Bomb for a political point…
Baseball season IS over for me.
jimmuscomp - October 8, 2008
theyre businessmen, plain and simple
their job is to keep their job. a lot of that idealistic wind gets knocked out in that process, wish that wasnt the case.
linkbruin - October 8, 2008
I think he was a good solid 4-5th starter, and a nice humble guy...
But 1) not worth 12 million…. and 2) we don’t need a 5th starter…. Put Moseley in there and you still make the playoffs in the west with no problem…. 5th starters never pitch in the playoffs…. and as everyone has stated the 100 wins were in vain… Minus 10 wins or so and we have the same exact team in the post season (and that’s all that matters right?)
stuck in Romania - October 8, 2008
Boom........................Outta here
Garland is a post arbitration pitcher that is just not worth the money.
Is he Type A?
hauldog - October 8, 2008
I think he is a type B
Sinatrasratpack - October 8, 2008
Then do not let the door hit your ass on the way out Judy
hauldog - October 8, 2008
someone commented
on the GA topic tht we should put GA’s money in the Te petty cash drawer I thought that was the best quote I’ve heard in awhile. We have great pitching and having a 12 mil 5th starter doesnt make sense.
If we had a cheap 5th starter that went 10-10 but our offense was better because we could sign tex it seems like a no brainer to me. Doesn’t mean that we dont offer Garland some money to stay but in my opinion he is not worth over 6 mil.
That is 6 mil in the Tex Kitty plus what we save by resigning GA to 5-7 mil a year.
When Arte said the payroll really won’t go any higher it sounded deflating, but common sense tells you that he’s gonna let some of these pieces go or offer them a lot less and then sign Tex
No Krod, GA real cheap and Garland Gone = Almost Tex’s money
Sinatrasratpack - October 8, 2008
Dump his a-s-s
Put that extra money into re-signing Tex and adding a bigger gun to the rotation. I’m thinking Sabathia.
chairmanofthebar - October 8, 2008
Is anyone around here smart enough to crunch out the numbers?
And bored enough to figure out what kind of money we’d save if we dropped some guys? And then figure out where it’d put our payroll at to sign tex with a realistic deal? Tex and CC both?
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
The Angels' payroll will be around $83M
before signing any new contracts or arbitration increases.
LOOK HERE
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
wow
i had no idea it was that low
BUT given the fact that we’ll probably extend Lackey and Vlad after next year, you’ve got to be careful… there won’t be a whole lot of money coming off the books
howiestheman - October 8, 2008
Could Mike Napoli be more under paid?
he is the genuine blue collar Angels worker.
44FAN - October 8, 2008
CC
I don’t want to throw $120-160 mil at CC. He pitched 250 innings this year, is completely overweight and will soon need surgery on his knees, back, elbow or shoulder.
Spend on Teix.
Sethy - October 8, 2008
agreed.
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
rec'd.
snowhor - October 8, 2008
The next Bartolo Colon?
While he is better than Colon, how soon till he is just about another Fatolo?
Monkeyspanked - October 8, 2008
in addition to a deserter.
:P I don’t blame him for jumping that ship though, lol.
teopeht - October 8, 2008
Deserter?
How so?
Moondoggy - October 8, 2008
maybe he meant "desserter"
BigBangRobbDawgg - October 8, 2008
Bartolon Colon...
left the red sox for the Dominican Republic to deal with family business. He liked it so much he refused to come back.
teopeht - October 8, 2008
Sorry, I don't agree
from everything I’ve read, which is a lot, he’s not fat…just big. Prince Fielder is fat. Sabathia’s not like Prince.
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
Either way
That’s still a ton of innings to throw, especially with 4-5 starts on three days rest consecutively, and a lot of weight for a back and knees to support.
Sethy - October 8, 2008
You're right about the innings
I’d be more concerned about the over-use the Brewers put on him rather than his weight.
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
Read a lot of stuff like that about Bartolo, too.
snowhor - October 8, 2008
When Colon was good his weight was around 185,
once he added the extra 60 lbs he had his problems. Sabathia came up as a rookie weighing 250.
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
Yeah, I didn't mean much by that point other than it struck me that I've heard that stuff before.
My real concern is the inning he’s pitch the last two years versus his previous years. I’m worried he’s been run like a cheap rental care.
Innings Pitched by CC:
2001 – 180
2002 – 210
2003- 197
2004 – 188
2005 – 196
2006 – 192
2007 – 241
2008 – 253
snowhor - October 8, 2008
Yikes, I didn't know it was that extreme
You’re right, that is a lot.
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
Rental car, not rental care. I'm having problems today.
snowhor - October 8, 2008
Help him pack
Tell him Seattle is nice in the summer time.
Laloosh - October 8, 2008
Peace out Garland
It was nice to have a 5th starter like that, but hopefully Escobar will be back next year. I know Adenhart didn’t look great when he came up, but hopefully he’ll keep developing and he’ll be ready to join the rotation at some point if there’s an injury or Escobar can’t make it back.
If not, heck, Moseley’s good enough. We’ve already got 4 starters with better than league average ERA’s (and two aces), so having one with an ERA of 5 isn’t going to kill us, especially not in this division.
Gorbachav5 - October 8, 2008
I agree with letting him go.
Save the money for Tex. Let Escobar or Adenhardt have the spot. Or even Moseley. For the regular season, an inexpensive serviceable starter is needed in the 5th spot. For the post season, a 5th starter is not even needed. This team needs to spend on signing/developing hitters in the mold of patient Tex rather than free-swinging GA.
snowhor - October 8, 2008
Bye Judy you were alright.
I would really love to see U-Hauls bat in our lineup, but is the decision based purely on money? It sounded like he enjoyed his time with our team but if its just a money thing with his agent I imagine there are other teams that are willing to hurl cash at him.
teopeht - October 8, 2008
The only reason he should be let go is financial.
He did a solid job. He was a decent, humble guy who, as far as I know, made a good teammate. If he were half the price, it’d be worth considering, but no #5 starter should be making 12+ million dollars per year. If that’s the money it is going to take, he can go be a #1 for the Rangers.
NoDakHalo - October 8, 2008
agree
Moondoggy - October 8, 2008
ciao.
For $12 million. Ha!
Chris Knapp's Sac - October 8, 2008
No Escobar
most people here seem to think that Kelvim Escobar will be in the rotation next year. Sorry to break the news to you all, but he won’t be back until July at the earliest, and there is no way of knowing whether he’ll be effective, or even able to throw 100 pitches.
So, they need a 5th starter for at least April, May & June, and possibly for longer.
There is nobody in the minors ready to step up.
Dustin Moseley is not the answer.
So, there are three choices: (a) Garland; (b) other, unidentified FA pitcher (Derek Lowe?); © someone acquired via trade.
I would offer Garland arbitration. If he accepts, then fine; they get another year to develop pitching internally, and at worst it costs $2-$3 million more than it should. But there’s no way Garland accepts arbitration. He’ll have more than one multi-year offer.
The Angels could consider offering him 2-3 years, at around $8 million. Someone will pay him more, though.
jjackflash - October 8, 2008
Why is Moseley not a possibility?
No, he’s not good, but we’re talking about a 5th starter. Moseley actually looked decent in his last few starts (one against the Yankees). I think he could be a stopgap with a 5 ERA until Escobar gets back or Adenhart looks ready. The only thing Moseley probably won’t do is eat as many innings as Garland.
So we go to our long reliever a little more often. In this division, I would rather save the money on a subpar starter who’s going to earn $8 – 10 million and throw that money at a bat, preferably Teixeira.
Gorbachav5 - October 8, 2008
Agreed
Having an open competition for a fifth starter leaves room for other guys like Moseley and Adenhart to step up. We don’t want these guys rotting away in AAA so we can pay $10+ million to fifth starter.
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
I agree...
Moseley wont be pretty but the Angels should still have no problems in this division…. Just get scared if another one of our top 4 go down with an injury…
stuck in Romania - October 8, 2008
If you're going to talk about Moseley, why not add Jepsen and Loux into the discussion?
sothball - October 8, 2008
Fine with me
I was just throwing Moseley’s name out there. Loux is detinitely an option but I’m not sure about Jepsen – wasn’t he a reliever in the minors as well? Either way, the point remains that we have internal options.
Would we rather pay someone $9 million a year for 3 years for a 4.80 ERA or pay someone $500k for a 5.20 ERA until Escobar or our prospects are ready? If we were in the AL East, option 1 would at least be tempting, if not good. In the AL West, it’s not worth it.
Gorbachav5 - October 8, 2008
Read above, the surgery went better than expected
Escobar is still aiming to be ready by the start of ’09. Its July at the latest, not earliest.
HungryHunter - October 8, 2008
I Read That
and I’ll believe it when I see it. Until he actually begins a throwing program, though, it’s foolish to count on him to throw even a single pitch next year, let alone pencil him into the rotation and make personnel decisions based upon the assumption.
jjackflash - October 8, 2008
Even if Escobar pitches 0 innings in the rotation
We’ll get much more dollar value out of an internal option than a sub-par to mediocre free agent. Based on how Texas, Seattle and Oakland are shaping up, we really need to gear this team for the postseason, when we won’t need a 5th starter. Yes, that’s assuming a lot of things, and I know the division isn’t a gimme, but I really think a rotating group of 5th starters at a savings of $8 million a year will be worth it over any free agent we can sign.
If Arte was going to open his pocketbook and increase payroll again, I’m with you. But if signing a FA pitcher for that much keeps us from getting a middle of the order bat, then no way.
Gorbachav5 - October 8, 2008
The Way I See It
is that the Halos should offer arbitration, but not really enter the FA bidding process with Garland. Someone will offer him a multi-year deal. He is not going to take the Angels’ one-year offer, and if he does, the cost over his unknown replacement is really not significant in terms of a one-year deal, which is all he’d get in arbitration. The point is really to secure the draft pick compensation. And, at worst, the 2009 Jon Garland will probably be a lot like the 2008 Garland, which is not bad and doesn’t really impact the team’s long-term fiscal plans. If Escobar comes back or one of the young guys blossoms, they would probably be able to unload him at the trading deadline to an NL contender. See, e.g., Joe Blanton, Randy Wolf, etc.
jjackflash - October 8, 2008
I agree he's worth the gamble of having arbitration accepted.
Stoneman was stupid and out of touch with the market to not have offered arbitration to Glaus and Washburn. I hope the ninja doesn’t repeat those mistakes.
snowhor - October 8, 2008
I agree with that
It’s definitely worth the risk that he’ll except arbitration in order to get the draft picks. In this market, he could probably get a 3 year deal for $30 million + from an NL team, so I just don’t foresee him accepting arb. But you never know.
Gorbachav5 - October 8, 2008
Let him go.
But maybe see if he’s willing to take a significant cut to stay. Don’t know what the market is for a pitcher of his talent, but if it’s afforadable he’s a good #5 guy.
Escobar can’t be counted on until mid-2009 at least. Hopefully his replacement is doing well enough that if he is able to pitch in 2009, he’d go to the pen. Wouldn’t it be nice to catch lightning-in-a-bottle again next year with a starting pitcher like the Angels did with Saunders in 2008? Who saw that coming?
WiHaloFan - October 8, 2008
seya
Let him walk, there are good young arms in the farm system and not to mention Escobar will be back at some point next year. Or if you do resign him maybe package him and Kendrick for an arm in the Bullpen.
Skizoss25 - October 8, 2008
Buh bye
Thanks for the League Average Innings Munching (LAIM).
scareduck - October 8, 2008
Yep.
Big Bad , "VLAD"! - October 8, 2008
C'mon you guys, the Judy jokes were hysterical...
what are we going to do w/out her?
See ya in Seattle Judy!
K3YEROUT - October 8, 2008
Bye Bye Judy
Enjoy your 4 or 5 year 50 million contract that you will get paid by some team desperate for pitching. For your stats sake, I hope it’s in the NL.
stolenbases - October 8, 2008
John Gar(bage)
A nice 5th hometown starter he may be, but I’m more interested in saving pennies for Texy.
iliveforthis - October 8, 2008
Orlando Cabrera...
was it worth giving him up for Garland? His postseason numbers were slightly better than Aybar’s postseason numbers, but i think that OC in the line up would have changed things in boston this year. And the team didnt even use garland this postseason. I always felt like that trade wasnt necessary even after we found out escobar wasnt goin to come back. So, goodbye jon!!
ANGELS IN 2009!!!
dougd11 - October 8, 2008
He may have made $12m Rev
but the club also gave $1.5m to the White Sox when they made the trade. So he really cost us $13.5m.
Angel Aviator - October 8, 2008
You are right
When the trade was made, I couldn’t believe the Angels gave the White Sox $1.5 million.
stolenbases - October 8, 2008
Tex will create the domino effect in the Halos decision making.
I believe we have exclusivity on Tex from Nov 1 through the 14th, correct?
If we haven’t signed Tex by the 12th or so then he’s leaving. If management understands this then perhaps they’ll either attempt to resign Garland, or perhaps they’ll surprise, like they did last year, and go after Sabathia.
Remember, nobody believed the Angels would pursue Torii Hunter; after all, we’d just signed GJM to that ridiculous deal and everyone had him penciled in as the CF for several years. Then BAM, next thing you know we’re eating at Del Taco and it tastes great!
Maybe that’ll happen again; our strength is our rotation, we don’t “need” another starter, but maybe we shock the world and try to feel better about losing Mark by signing C.C….
goodvibe61 - October 8, 2008
No way Boras lets Tex sign
before he can field offers from every team. I think the Angels still have a chance once he reaches free agency. I hope they offer him the $20 -22 million a year he (Boras) wants.
Gorbachav5 - October 8, 2008
Bye Bye judy
vlad IS my man - October 8, 2008
Thanks Jon or John..
however you want to spell your name. We could have had something special, but it wasn’t meant to be.
Adios
Dono Romantico - October 8, 2008
Peace out
screw you and your 4.9 whatever ERA. I’d rather have moseley…
okay well maybe not. but see ya anyway.
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - October 8, 2008
2 years at $million per
best 5th starter in baseball. Otherwise, see ya!
Rev Halofan - October 8, 2008
$7 million per
Rev Halofan - October 8, 2008
that's actually not a bad idea
but would be take it?
if he’d sign for that, i’d say do it.
howiestheman - October 8, 2008
I doubt it
Some fool will offer him more
stolenbases - October 9, 2008
As Englebert would say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWPATqJTZjE
vladtheimpaler - October 9, 2008
Offer arbitration
Like Rev said offer Garland a 2yrs contract max. If he takes it fine if not offer arbitration and get the draft picks.
310Angel - October 9, 2008
Is he even a Type A free agent?
hauldog - October 9, 2008
Yes.
Blicks - October 11, 2008
Let him go
Garland is a below average pitcher, at a one year deal for 5-7 million he’s OK at the back end of your rotation. Somebody’s going to give him a lot more than that, probably 4 years at 8-10 million. Don’t let that be us.
RallyMonkey5 - October 9, 2008
No no no. Even a one-year deal is one year too long.
He’s getting worse. A poor K/9 rate of 4.23 in 2007 fell to 4.12 in 2008. Let him walk away.
Fan Since 1981 - October 11, 2008
Let him go...
Downing Rules - October 14, 2008
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