Closer Francisco Rodriguez is a Free Agent. He made $10 Million in 2008 and that was after losing in arbitration. Mariano Rivera makes $15 Million a year.
For me, a closer is not worth that money. I say,if you want to keep the bats ,get rid of him and go with Shields or Arrendondo or sign a closer/trade..Free that money for a run at Tex or Manny ???..
Would Mannys antics survive in LAA ??
If Manny / Ortiz was such a success for the Red Sux then why not Manny / Vladdy. They both are good friends and Vlad would certainly step up his game with Manny around. Plus Manny has been Mr. October of the past 15 years.
While I appreciate what he’s done and that he’s stuck with the organization for so long it’s too much money for his role that would be much better spent on another solid bat in our lineup.
I can’t recall the source, but in a recent interview he was asked: if the Angels made him a good offer would he consider them first? And his answer was to the effect of “of course, these people have been my family for years now.”
So he’s playing the market, yes, but it’s not as though he wants a one way ticket out of the 714.
I'm of the theory of letting Frankie go, use the money to buy some good batters.
Let Shields and Arredondo take turns closing. Jespen and Loux, our long relievers. If we have more guys that can get the extra base hits and hit more long balls, then we should’nt have to rely on the closers so much. Yeah, that sounds good.
I believe he is going to be painfully shocked that an offer for $15 Million does NOT come and he may come back to the Angels for $12 mill for 4 plus incentives.
I am not so sure that any team is going to be willing to shell out the cash he wants. He’s blown it in the last two post-seasons and despite the record this year, many of those ninth innings were nail-biters when they really shouldn’t of been.
I am all in favor of keeping Frankie. And as much as I love Arrondondo, I’m still holding out to see how he does next year. However, Weaver in game 3 got me thinking. A young, emotional, hard throwing pitcher.
That would be a bargain and I’d love to see Frankie back for that. I think he’ll go for 4 yrs $14M and that will be too much for the Angels. It will be interesting to see how quickly Frankie is signed as I suspect Boras will want to stretch out the Teix negotiations which will somewhat handcuff the Angels. It will be a tough dilemma, to go for Frankie early or wait and play the Boras Teix game. The two are somewhat inversely proportional, not having one makes the other more important, but not really having the ability to have both. At least not unless we blow up the payroll, beauty of Arte is he’s the kind of owner who just might do that. Boras knows that if the Angels don’t sign Frankie than they will really need Teix, thus driving up the bidding war. Chances are high that we lose both however, hopefully we end up with 1 out of 3, CC, Frankie, Teix. More than 1 would be huge.
is the number that popped into my head when I thought about how hi I would go to resign him. I would consider giving him 5 years, or 4 plus an option year,
So may factors to consider if I am Tony Reagins or Arte Moreno;
1) What about the other options (Vlad, Lackey, Oliver, Teixiera, GA, Figgins, Rivera, Garland)?
2) What about overall payroll? Is the money better spent elsewhere?
3) Is Arredondo really ready to take over a pressure closer role? He seems to have the physical skills. Does he have the mental skills?
4) If not Arredondo, Shields? I don’t think so…too inconsistent, and he does not want the role. I can’t think of anyone else filling the role short of a trade or FA signing.
5) Frankie has shown he has great closer skills…but has had problems in the playoffs where success/failure is magnified (excluding 2002 when he was an unknown quantity).
6) Frankie is young and has held up well for 6 years. Do we commit 12-15 million a year for 4-5 years to a pitcher that is very young, but that has a violent delivery?
7) Does Frankie want to stay here, or is he selling himself to the highest bidder (i.e. any home town discount)?
This decision would be easier if I had a crystal ball. Good thing Reagins/Moreno are paid the big bucks. I would not go more than 4 years 11-13 million a year…too much risk otherwise. If Frankie received a higher offer, I would immediately start praying to any and all gods that Arredondo is ready to be a closer.
spending this much money on a closer is crazy. but even more so when we are wasting $10M to GMJ. Also spending $18M on Hunter — who is good, but not worth $18M.
This guy was on his way out at the end of the first half of 2007. Even though he was named to the AS team that year, he was the K-Rod [in a real bad way] for a while in that year’s Colorado Rockies’ bullpen.
Signing this guy would be like signing J.C. Romero all over again.
be open to the idea of re-signing him if the price is right, but I don’t want to get into a bidding war for him as he is not worth it. Make him an offer you think is fair and if he doesn’t accept (which he probably won’t), then happy trails!
Use the money to keep Tex or to get another bat and possibly a FA starting pitcher. We could also use some middle relief help, especially if we don’t re-sign Darren Oliver.
If we sign C.C. Sabathia as the rumor mill implies we will try and Escobar is healthy, it might be worth trying Escobar as closer. If we don’t sign Sabathia, we should still let K-Rod go and give it to Shields or Arredondo or both. Maybe we can be like the Rays and make the ALCS without having the same closer all season.
Take the picks. I agree with RICangelfan and Doctor Wu we should consider trying Escobar as the closer. I don’t really like Shields in that role and Arredondo needs more seasoning. Maybe we could also see if Bobby Jenks is available.
If he signed his long term contract [with the Angels] and blew out his arm, warming up in the Venezuelan Winter League…only then I would say K-Rod really somehow screwed the organization and its fans over.
I’m leaning towards letting K-Rod go, but really I have no animosity towards him, and wouldn’t mind if he was resigned to whatever he wants. We aren’t management but while it is obvious we want K-Rod out the door, I would let the Angels worry about resigning him, Teixeira or Lackey.
I don't want the Angels to get stuck in a long term contract with him
He probably won’t get 15 million a year, but someone will probably give him a 4 or 5 year contract for 40 million or more. That’s just too big a risk. If he would accept a 2 year contract with a bunch of incentives and an option that would be fine, but I know he won’t accept that so it’s best to let him go.
I would rather see Justin Speier closing next year than F-Rod. He will be nowhere near worth the money that he wants and he has lost so much velocity on his fastball since 2002 (which is what made him so effective). We could probably just bring up Jenks, Turnbow, or Wise from the minors and they would be good to go…oh wait….Lets just go with Escobar if he is healthy (remember how nails he was out of the pen in 2005).
of Escobar coming out of the bullpen. He could close if Arredondo doesn’t do well in that role since Escobar has closed with Toronto before or he could be a 7th inning type guy instead of Justin Speier. However I’d also be glad if he made a successful return to the rotation as he would be an upgrade over Jon Garland. I think he’s more likely to come out of the bullpen if we do end up signing a free agent starting pitcher like CC Sabathia or A.J. Burnett because in that case we would be 6 starters deep and Escobar is the most logical candidate to put in the bullpen since he is coming back from a serious injury and might not quite have what it takes to be a starter right away. So the way I see it, our rotation will either look like:
Sabathia is probably more likely to be a Halo next year since it seems that Burnett is likely to stay in Toronto. If not that, then the Yankees since they have expressed a lot of interest in him.
Another thing I hope the Angels consider is possibly making a trade for Jake Peavy. Peavy apparently prefers to stay in the National League but would consider three unspecified American League teams. He has a no-trade clause. I think the Angels have the means to pull this deal off if they are able to re-sign Teixeira. If not, it will be tough. If we could re-sign Tex then players such as Kendrick and Morales become expendable in my opinion.
We he has been increasingly less effective as his career goes on and he’s not worth 5 years at 75k. We will get by with what we have. So offer him arbitration and let’s get the draft picks.
And should not command $15 million. That’s ridiculous. I thought $10 milion was high for a guy who never pitched in the eighth inning and blew something like what, 7 saves? Brad Lidge would be worth what he wants, even Rivera would be worth it, but Rodriguez, barring some kind of reinvention, is on the downhill slope. Let Shields close for a year with Dondo as his understudy, then let Jose loose in 2010 as the new closer.
and try to make every other deal in the meantime. Make a play for Tex, deal with GA’s option, extend Lackey and Vlad, make a play for C.C. or Burnett.
Basically leave him on the sideline until you shore up every other spot. If he’s there at the end great, if not oh well. I have a feeling nobody is going to jump at $15 million per/yr. action and there may be a decent deal at the end of free agency to keep him in house after he has exhausted all options.
He’s going to get a lot of money regardless (4 yrs at 12 – 15 million per, probably), and he’s not worth that. Not when we have decent backup options and we have much bigger holes elsewhere (ahem firstbase ahem). Thanks for the good times K-Rod, but we leave you to ply your trade elsewhere.
I am confused at all the people saying he is “barely above average” or otherwise disparaging his pitching (disparaing his ego is alright). Yeah, he’s going to be overpaid, but this guy is one of the top 5 closers in baseball. I happen to think he’s declining and probably won’t sustain this success for another 5 years, but he’s still darn good. His K-rate last year was 10.2 per 9 innings, by far the lowest of his career. I mean, even in his decline, he’s still good. And there’s at least some chance he bounces back next year.
Anyway, don’t sign him, let someone else take that risk and we get picks and the money to throw at a bat.
No one who pitches 1-3 innings/ week is worth $12-15 million. His ability to break Thigpin’s record this year was obviously due to the Angels’ lack of offense and inability to break games open. That money should be used to sign Tex and maybe, just maybe, we can expand our margins of victories in ’09 thus giving us some cushion for a Jose/Shields combo (which they may not even need).
Offer arbitration, no long term deal. Let the Mets have him.
Watching the Phillies/dodgers last night, I was dumbfounded when I saw Brad Lidge pitch in the 8th and 9th innings. Do the rules really let closers do that? Shouldn’t our Mr. Bestest Closer In The World be able to do that successfully before comanding the highest salary ever for a reliever?
Frankie was FAR more valuable in 2002 for exactly that reason. Our best pitcher was pitched when needed and not asked to get merely 3 almost arbitrary outs. The Soth is in the same boat with the vast majority of managers in this area though and it makes absolutely no sense.
The money is going to be needed for Tex. If Arte and the Ninja were willing to sign Torii for 18 million a year, then they should offer Tex 8 years for 25 million a year with options.
wants to give us a hometown discount because he loves his “familia” in Anaheim, so that his “Familia” can use the money to sign more players to get us to the WS, I say Hasta La Bye Bye Francisco !
I say “sign him.” It’s a no-brainer IMHO. Give him what he wants. Hell, it’s just money and millions of fans are flocking to Anaheim to watch the team every season.
You have to spend money to make money, Arte. Keep the local “faithful” faithful. Otherwise, they’ll turn on you and stop attending.
I’m sick of his act now. The finger pointing. The screaming. The showboating.
Because he has not closed when it counts the most. I would trade all those empty saves for 2, game 2 of the ALDS this year and last. But he couldn’t close when it meant something to us.
And here’s the thing. I was listening to Jeff Biggs the night we were eliminated, and he was saying that not only did FRod not discuss the game 2 homer with the media, but he was a dick about not talking to them. Biggs went on to say that Frankie was the first guy to his locker when he tied and broke the saves record, but when things go wrong (and don’t they always go wrong in game 2 of the alds?) he is not accountable for his actions. And that he was nowhere to be found in the locker room when the team clinched the division this year; the guy split, and Biggs implied that perhaps it was because it wasn’t all about KRod that afternoon…
He HAS made disparaging comments about our not signing him to this point (“They’ve had 5 years and haven’t done anything”), and I just get the feeling that to Frankie it’s all about HIM. And unfortunately he is definitely not MONEY when it counts.
The saves record is the emptiest stat i can think of in baseball. How often does he come in with bases empty and a 3 run lead, and he gives up a run, hits, walks, and gets a “SAVE”? Also, go look at this year’s AL pitching stats. Sort by save. Look at the top closers. Look at how many times guys like Papelbon, Mariano and Nathan enter a game and it’s NOT a save situation. Then look at KRod’s numbers. It’s completely mind boggling. And look at his walks; it’s staggering to see how many BB’s he serves up. Look also at SAVE OPPORTUNITIES: what are the odds of him getting anywhere near the number of chances he got with us this year when he’s anywhere else? Extremely unlikely. Seriously, go look at the numbers. Look at Nathan. Look at Mariano. Look at Papelbon. Then tell me Frankie’s the best.
He’s done a very, very good job for us. He’s not THE priority this offseason. Let’s see what happens with Tex, then the dominos will fall, and KRod is several dominoes from the front (Tex, CC, Manny, Burnett, I could go on). No closer is worth 15 million. If he’s not signed after we’ve shored up our roster, offer him 4 years, 11.5 million per. And that’s it. And i’m not sure he would take that as anything but a personal affront.
Complicated feelings for the guy. But now I feel his Angel legacy are those 2 post season home runs. Ouch. But if we can get him for a reasonable price (4×10 or so) then go ahead.
Why would he offer a hometown discount, when ‘his family’ obviously wants to kick him out of the house? Management obviously sees the sentiment and will not hesitate to throw him out the door, knowing they can get away with it, without an overtly angry fan base.
Of course, Speier, Shields and Yan can close by committee – is Esteban still with the Angels?
I think the sentiment at this board is that while Frankie is a great pitcher the fact that he is only going to throw 60 innings a year does not make him worth 15 mill per. We are not average fans, I’m posting before my breakfast right now……. The MAJORITY of Angels fans that I know that attend games would be pretty upset if the Angels “traded” Frankie because of his record breaking year.
Anything beyond $10-12M is too much to spend on this position...
…unless the guy is automatic! And Frankie AIN’T AUTOMATIC!
2002 was fun..the novelty of the fastball and slider was Fernando-esque. Unfortunately, w/out that fastball / slider combo he is not what he used to be.
Now the development of that change-up throws a bit of a wrench into things…if he can perfect that pitch it may relieve some of the stress of that motion! Again a crapshoot! If they can sign him in that range posted above @ 4 years or so, I say go for it…otherwise, time to move on! Let’s get the draft pick.
Watching the Rays right now is fun with all of their young players. I enjoyed seeing the growth of Jose ET-adondo. I really want to see Wood and maybe Naps or a pitcher just go crazy next season!
I am weary of the Frankie act/routine! Same thing I always say to the obnoxious Boston fans when they pop off, “Learn how to win and act like you’ve been there before…til then STFU!”
Riding the wave in 2002 and going to the DS and WS games will always be the “wildest, funnest” times as an Angel fan….with winning the west in 79 and camping in the parking lot for 3 days and 2 nights to buy tix a close 2nd.
adios!
Captain Awesome - October 13, 2008
For me, a closer is not worth that money. I say,if you want to keep the bats ,get rid of him and go with Shields or Arrendondo or sign a closer/trade..Free that money for a run at Tex or Manny ???..
Would Mannys antics survive in LAA ??
raven191 - October 13, 2008
Maybe, but consider this...
If Manny / Ortiz was such a success for the Red Sux then why not Manny / Vladdy. They both are good friends and Vlad would certainly step up his game with Manny around. Plus Manny has been Mr. October of the past 15 years.
VladdyG - October 13, 2008
and krod has been the anti-october the last two years.
NoDakHalo - October 14, 2008
Nah nah nah nah...
Nah nah nah nah…
hey hey hey…
goodbye.
Jose, Jose Jose Jose…Jose….Jose.
Carl Johnson - October 13, 2008
Let him go.
While I appreciate what he’s done and that he’s stuck with the organization for so long it’s too much money for his role that would be much better spent on another solid bat in our lineup.
teopeht - October 13, 2008
Stuck?
He had no choice but to stick with the club
Angel Aviator - October 13, 2008
True, but I generally appreciate players who play well for a team
and don’t complain about this and that ala Manny. You take your lumps and play the game.
teopeht - October 14, 2008
I'd say let him walk
it’s likely the Mets would go after him and then the Angels would likely get their 1st round pick and a compensation pick.
I also appreciate what he has done like teopeht but he doesn’t seem to want to stay in Anaheim so it’s hard for me to want him to stay.
MH252525 - October 13, 2008
Well...
I can’t recall the source, but in a recent interview he was asked: if the Angels made him a good offer would he consider them first? And his answer was to the effect of “of course, these people have been my family for years now.”
So he’s playing the market, yes, but it’s not as though he wants a one way ticket out of the 714.
Zoe Necrosis - October 13, 2008
it was in
the Times last week. He said the Angels were his first choice, and did use the word family.
ineptituderunsamok - October 14, 2008
Depth will take a hit.
I don’t have a problem with losing the celebration king himself; however, it does significantly weaken the overall depth of the pen.
But yeah, K-Rod already seems to be a strictly 3-out guy. Pass.
Floppy Bad Boy - October 13, 2008
I'm of the theory of letting Frankie go, use the money to buy some good batters.
Let Shields and Arredondo take turns closing. Jespen and Loux, our long relievers. If we have more guys that can get the extra base hits and hit more long balls, then we should’nt have to rely on the closers so much. Yeah, that sounds good.
44FAN - October 13, 2008
FRANKIE WITH A HALO
I believe he is going to be painfully shocked that an offer for $15 Million does NOT come and he may come back to the Angels for $12 mill for 4 plus incentives.
Rev Halofan - October 13, 2008
i agree
linkbruin - October 13, 2008
I don't that I want Frankie
at any price. I wonder if Arredondo is ready . Frankie is not as nail as he was a couple of years ago.
higdog - October 13, 2008
I would sign him at 12 million as Rev suggests
tanana40 - October 13, 2008
agree
I am not so sure that any team is going to be willing to shell out the cash he wants. He’s blown it in the last two post-seasons and despite the record this year, many of those ninth innings were nail-biters when they really shouldn’t of been.
I am all in favor of keeping Frankie. And as much as I love Arrondondo, I’m still holding out to see how he does next year. However, Weaver in game 3 got me thinking. A young, emotional, hard throwing pitcher.
hmmmm….
BryanHarvey'sMoustache - October 14, 2008
I wish
That would be a bargain and I’d love to see Frankie back for that. I think he’ll go for 4 yrs $14M and that will be too much for the Angels. It will be interesting to see how quickly Frankie is signed as I suspect Boras will want to stretch out the Teix negotiations which will somewhat handcuff the Angels. It will be a tough dilemma, to go for Frankie early or wait and play the Boras Teix game. The two are somewhat inversely proportional, not having one makes the other more important, but not really having the ability to have both. At least not unless we blow up the payroll, beauty of Arte is he’s the kind of owner who just might do that. Boras knows that if the Angels don’t sign Frankie than they will really need Teix, thus driving up the bidding war. Chances are high that we lose both however, hopefully we end up with 1 out of 3, CC, Frankie, Teix. More than 1 would be huge.
LosAngel - October 13, 2008
I think you may be right
But you never know the stupidity of others. Let’s hope we can get him back in the ballpark you mention.
vladtheimpaler - October 14, 2008
thats what i'm afraid of.
NoDakHalo - October 14, 2008
$12 mil
is the number that popped into my head when I thought about how hi I would go to resign him. I would consider giving him 5 years, or 4 plus an option year,
billhune - October 14, 2008
So may factors to consider if I am Tony Reagins or Arte Moreno;
1) What about the other options (Vlad, Lackey, Oliver, Teixiera, GA, Figgins, Rivera, Garland)?
2) What about overall payroll? Is the money better spent elsewhere?
3) Is Arredondo really ready to take over a pressure closer role? He seems to have the physical skills. Does he have the mental skills?
4) If not Arredondo, Shields? I don’t think so…too inconsistent, and he does not want the role. I can’t think of anyone else filling the role short of a trade or FA signing.
5) Frankie has shown he has great closer skills…but has had problems in the playoffs where success/failure is magnified (excluding 2002 when he was an unknown quantity).
6) Frankie is young and has held up well for 6 years. Do we commit 12-15 million a year for 4-5 years to a pitcher that is very young, but that has a violent delivery?
7) Does Frankie want to stay here, or is he selling himself to the highest bidder (i.e. any home town discount)?
This decision would be easier if I had a crystal ball. Good thing Reagins/Moreno are paid the big bucks. I would not go more than 4 years 11-13 million a year…too much risk otherwise. If Frankie received a higher offer, I would immediately start praying to any and all gods that Arredondo is ready to be a closer.
sothball - October 13, 2008
Mr.Moreno IS the big bucks.
44FAN - October 13, 2008
I sit corrected.
sothball - October 13, 2008
we already have a few bad contracts
spending this much money on a closer is crazy. but even more so when we are wasting $10M to GMJ. Also spending $18M on Hunter — who is good, but not worth $18M.
Bye Frankie….thanks for 2002!
Four Ts - October 13, 2008
Thanks for 2002!
It was a thing of beauty, that cinderella story.
Good luck someplace else!
LittleCupcakes - October 13, 2008
Offer him 5/55
He walks, he either crawls back or we get some nice draft picks
Good luck Frankie!
Los Angeles de Anaheim - October 13, 2008
Thanks for the Drama Frankie...
Hope your new fans have stock in Rolaids.
tdischino - October 13, 2008
Scot and Jose are perfectly capable of inflicting their own brands of cardiac arrest on Angels fans.
44FAN - October 13, 2008
Fuentes
Get Brian Fuentes!!!!
docescobar07 - October 13, 2008
Yep
He is rumored to want a lidge deal.
hauldog - October 14, 2008
See ya later!
Biggest ego on the team. Not worth the money.
chairmanofthebar - October 13, 2008
bye bye, Frankie!
it’s not worth it… heck, he wasn’t worth what he got THIS YEAR.
I’d take a shot at Fuentes for 2 years, but if no go, then go with Shields or Arredondo.
howiestheman - October 13, 2008
Fuentes???
This guy was on his way out at the end of the first half of 2007. Even though he was named to the AS team that year, he was the K-Rod [in a real bad way] for a while in that year’s Colorado Rockies’ bullpen.
Signing this guy would be like signing J.C. Romero all over again.
BBFan1 - October 13, 2008
JC Romero
clutch pitching for phils….then again, it is NL baseball.
SCHalo - October 13, 2008
No way do we do JC redux. EVER!!!
jimmuscomp - October 14, 2008
I would
be open to the idea of re-signing him if the price is right, but I don’t want to get into a bidding war for him as he is not worth it. Make him an offer you think is fair and if he doesn’t accept (which he probably won’t), then happy trails!
Use the money to keep Tex or to get another bat and possibly a FA starting pitcher. We could also use some middle relief help, especially if we don’t re-sign Darren Oliver.
Chzburger Jones - October 13, 2008
apparently
Darren Oliver is considered a type A free agent as per mlbtraderumors.com
this is quite interesting. we may end up with good positions in the next draft.
b0rd3rline - October 13, 2008
or nobody gives Oliver a deal
if the angels offer arbitration. losing a top pick on oliver is not good business.
Four Ts - October 13, 2008
The Angels wouldn't lose a pick for resigning one of their players
TheTypingFiend - October 14, 2008
To clarify
I think he’s saying OTHER teams won’t risk losing a top pick just to sign Oliver.
Gorbachav5 - October 14, 2008
tell him "coffee is for closers"
gdog009 - October 13, 2008
panther
yeswecan - October 14, 2008
No Way on KROD
He was tremendously lucky this year to get all of those saves. If we keep him, we do it for no more than 10 mil.
Dodger Hater - October 13, 2008
Thank you for your service Mr. KROD
But it’s time to move on. Make Dondo, Escobar or even Weaver the closer.
Doctor Wu - October 13, 2008
Let him go
If we sign C.C. Sabathia as the rumor mill implies we will try and Escobar is healthy, it might be worth trying Escobar as closer. If we don’t sign Sabathia, we should still let K-Rod go and give it to Shields or Arredondo or both. Maybe we can be like the Rays and make the ALCS without having the same closer all season.
RICangelfan - October 13, 2008
C-YA
Please ohhhhh please say he is gone!!!
Angel Aviator - October 13, 2008
Offer arbitration and get the picks
Take the picks. I agree with RICangelfan and Doctor Wu we should consider trying Escobar as the closer. I don’t really like Shields in that role and Arredondo needs more seasoning. Maybe we could also see if Bobby Jenks is available.
310Angel - October 13, 2008
K-Rod
If he signed his long term contract [with the Angels] and blew out his arm, warming up in the Venezuelan Winter League…only then I would say K-Rod really somehow screwed the organization and its fans over.
I’m leaning towards letting K-Rod go, but really I have no animosity towards him, and wouldn’t mind if he was resigned to whatever he wants. We aren’t management but while it is obvious we want K-Rod out the door, I would let the Angels worry about resigning him, Teixeira or Lackey.
BBFan1 - October 13, 2008
Not worth keeping...
Will take too much money away from attempting to keep Teixeira…
nzach54 - October 13, 2008
I don't want the Angels to get stuck in a long term contract with him
He probably won’t get 15 million a year, but someone will probably give him a 4 or 5 year contract for 40 million or more. That’s just too big a risk. If he would accept a 2 year contract with a bunch of incentives and an option that would be fine, but I know he won’t accept that so it’s best to let him go.
stolenbases - October 13, 2008
So long chief
I would rather see Justin Speier closing next year than F-Rod. He will be nowhere near worth the money that he wants and he has lost so much velocity on his fastball since 2002 (which is what made him so effective). We could probably just bring up Jenks, Turnbow, or Wise from the minors and they would be good to go…oh wait….Lets just go with Escobar if he is healthy (remember how nails he was out of the pen in 2005).
turs12 - October 13, 2008
Definitely
Speier has been money for the Angels and is a reliever proven to ignite the flames of wrath.
BBFan1 - October 14, 2008
all of the solutions sound bad
linkbruin - October 14, 2008
*those
linkbruin - October 14, 2008
I like the idea
of Escobar coming out of the bullpen. He could close if Arredondo doesn’t do well in that role since Escobar has closed with Toronto before or he could be a 7th inning type guy instead of Justin Speier. However I’d also be glad if he made a successful return to the rotation as he would be an upgrade over Jon Garland. I think he’s more likely to come out of the bullpen if we do end up signing a free agent starting pitcher like CC Sabathia or A.J. Burnett because in that case we would be 6 starters deep and Escobar is the most logical candidate to put in the bullpen since he is coming back from a serious injury and might not quite have what it takes to be a starter right away. So the way I see it, our rotation will either look like:
Lackey, Santana, Saunders, Escobar, Weaver or Lackey, Sabathia/Burnett, Santana, Saunders, Weaver.
Sabathia is probably more likely to be a Halo next year since it seems that Burnett is likely to stay in Toronto. If not that, then the Yankees since they have expressed a lot of interest in him.
Another thing I hope the Angels consider is possibly making a trade for Jake Peavy. Peavy apparently prefers to stay in the National League but would consider three unspecified American League teams. He has a no-trade clause. I think the Angels have the means to pull this deal off if they are able to re-sign Teixeira. If not, it will be tough. If we could re-sign Tex then players such as Kendrick and Morales become expendable in my opinion.
Chzburger Jones - October 13, 2008
Sign him...
if you want more heartbreaking postseason homeruns to crush the soul and spirit of the team (not to mention you).
I would tend to think that we have other relievers capable of doing that.
Goodbye you prancing, showboating, regular-season Rivera wannabe.
GarretSaysSuckIt - October 13, 2008
Relievers may, or may not, grow on trees.
But Al Campanis’ apparently do.
Stirrups - October 13, 2008
Goodbye Frankie.
I hope you don’t end up in a domed stadium, otherwise you’re going to look really funny pointing at the roof.
bc56274 - October 14, 2008
He will get so many saves...
he will eventually point a hole in the roof…
Downing Rules - October 14, 2008
Adios Amigo
acuda27 - October 14, 2008
I loved K Rod
We he has been increasingly less effective as his career goes on and he’s not worth 5 years at 75k. We will get by with what we have. So offer him arbitration and let’s get the draft picks.
Bye, bye K Rod.
waters96 - October 14, 2008
K-Rod
Happy traaaaaails, to you…….
HaloDutch - October 14, 2008
49 bye-byes
Jack Kerouac - October 14, 2008
I say we just replace him with 3 pitchers
who can get 20 saves a year. and then the Angels would still have 60 some saves a year.
MH252525 - October 14, 2008
Ha, nice
Great reference.
Sethy - October 14, 2008
we platoon other positions, why not closer?
NoDakHalo - October 14, 2008
Ha...
Buzzy, is that you?
jimmuscomp - October 14, 2008
Buzzie, is that you?
red floyd - October 14, 2008
That is creepy, Red...
Same idea – I just misspelled his name…
jimmuscomp - October 14, 2008
He's barely above average
And should not command $15 million. That’s ridiculous. I thought $10 milion was high for a guy who never pitched in the eighth inning and blew something like what, 7 saves? Brad Lidge would be worth what he wants, even Rivera would be worth it, but Rodriguez, barring some kind of reinvention, is on the downhill slope. Let Shields close for a year with Dondo as his understudy, then let Jose loose in 2010 as the new closer.
That money should be lining Tex’ pockets.
Kernel - October 14, 2008
Wait him out without cutting ties...
and try to make every other deal in the meantime. Make a play for Tex, deal with GA’s option, extend Lackey and Vlad, make a play for C.C. or Burnett.
Basically leave him on the sideline until you shore up every other spot. If he’s there at the end great, if not oh well. I have a feeling nobody is going to jump at $15 million per/yr. action and there may be a decent deal at the end of free agency to keep him in house after he has exhausted all options.
Wytelitning - October 14, 2008
Don't re-sign him
He’s going to get a lot of money regardless (4 yrs at 12 – 15 million per, probably), and he’s not worth that. Not when we have decent backup options and we have much bigger holes elsewhere (ahem firstbase ahem). Thanks for the good times K-Rod, but we leave you to ply your trade elsewhere.
I am confused at all the people saying he is “barely above average” or otherwise disparaging his pitching (disparaing his ego is alright). Yeah, he’s going to be overpaid, but this guy is one of the top 5 closers in baseball. I happen to think he’s declining and probably won’t sustain this success for another 5 years, but he’s still darn good. His K-rate last year was 10.2 per 9 innings, by far the lowest of his career. I mean, even in his decline, he’s still good. And there’s at least some chance he bounces back next year.
Anyway, don’t sign him, let someone else take that risk and we get picks and the money to throw at a bat.
Gorbachav5 - October 14, 2008
In my opinion...
No one who pitches 1-3 innings/ week is worth $12-15 million. His ability to break Thigpin’s record this year was obviously due to the Angels’ lack of offense and inability to break games open. That money should be used to sign Tex and maybe, just maybe, we can expand our margins of victories in ’09 thus giving us some cushion for a Jose/Shields combo (which they may not even need).
autry's cowboys - October 14, 2008
Offer arbitration, no long term deal. Let the Mets have him.
Watching the Phillies/dodgers last night, I was dumbfounded when I saw Brad Lidge pitch in the 8th and 9th innings. Do the rules really let closers do that? Shouldn’t our Mr. Bestest Closer In The World be able to do that successfully before comanding the highest salary ever for a reliever?
snowhor - October 14, 2008
agreed
Frankie was FAR more valuable in 2002 for exactly that reason. Our best pitcher was pitched when needed and not asked to get merely 3 almost arbitrary outs. The Soth is in the same boat with the vast majority of managers in this area though and it makes absolutely no sense.
MH252525 - October 14, 2008
Unless he takes a significant hometown discount...
Thank you for your services. You’ll be missed.
Dondo is ready. Use the money you save on Franky towards making sure we get Tex back in the fold.
Ajax - October 14, 2008
Let him leave.
The money is going to be needed for Tex. If Arte and the Ninja were willing to sign Torii for 18 million a year, then they should offer Tex 8 years for 25 million a year with options.
AngelsFanInMinnesota - October 14, 2008
We need someone who will lock it down in the playoffs, not blow it up! So I say Walk!
Unless he’d take a three year 40 million contract.
Big Bad , "VLAD"! - October 14, 2008
bye frankie
vlad IS my man - October 14, 2008
Unless Frankie
wants to give us a hometown discount because he loves his “familia” in Anaheim, so that his “Familia” can use the money to sign more players to get us to the WS, I say Hasta La Bye Bye Francisco !
Dono Romantico - October 14, 2008
With unlimited resources...
I say “sign him.” It’s a no-brainer IMHO. Give him what he wants. Hell, it’s just money and millions of fans are flocking to Anaheim to watch the team every season.
You have to spend money to make money, Arte. Keep the local “faithful” faithful. Otherwise, they’ll turn on you and stop attending.
Downing Rules - October 14, 2008
With limited resources...
I say place a bag of dog-shit on his doorstep, light it on fire, ring the bell and run away.
snowhor - October 14, 2008
Classy.
Downing Rules - October 16, 2008
Frankie drove me away from him this year.
I’m sick of his act now. The finger pointing. The screaming. The showboating.
Because he has not closed when it counts the most. I would trade all those empty saves for 2, game 2 of the ALDS this year and last. But he couldn’t close when it meant something to us.
And here’s the thing. I was listening to Jeff Biggs the night we were eliminated, and he was saying that not only did FRod not discuss the game 2 homer with the media, but he was a dick about not talking to them. Biggs went on to say that Frankie was the first guy to his locker when he tied and broke the saves record, but when things go wrong (and don’t they always go wrong in game 2 of the alds?) he is not accountable for his actions. And that he was nowhere to be found in the locker room when the team clinched the division this year; the guy split, and Biggs implied that perhaps it was because it wasn’t all about KRod that afternoon…
He HAS made disparaging comments about our not signing him to this point (“They’ve had 5 years and haven’t done anything”), and I just get the feeling that to Frankie it’s all about HIM. And unfortunately he is definitely not MONEY when it counts.
The saves record is the emptiest stat i can think of in baseball. How often does he come in with bases empty and a 3 run lead, and he gives up a run, hits, walks, and gets a “SAVE”? Also, go look at this year’s AL pitching stats. Sort by save. Look at the top closers. Look at how many times guys like Papelbon, Mariano and Nathan enter a game and it’s NOT a save situation. Then look at KRod’s numbers. It’s completely mind boggling. And look at his walks; it’s staggering to see how many BB’s he serves up. Look also at SAVE OPPORTUNITIES: what are the odds of him getting anywhere near the number of chances he got with us this year when he’s anywhere else? Extremely unlikely. Seriously, go look at the numbers. Look at Nathan. Look at Mariano. Look at Papelbon. Then tell me Frankie’s the best.
He’s done a very, very good job for us. He’s not THE priority this offseason. Let’s see what happens with Tex, then the dominos will fall, and KRod is several dominoes from the front (Tex, CC, Manny, Burnett, I could go on). No closer is worth 15 million. If he’s not signed after we’ve shored up our roster, offer him 4 years, 11.5 million per. And that’s it. And i’m not sure he would take that as anything but a personal affront.
Complicated feelings for the guy. But now I feel his Angel legacy are those 2 post season home runs. Ouch. But if we can get him for a reasonable price (4×10 or so) then go ahead.
goodvibe61 - October 14, 2008
Hometown discount
Why would he offer a hometown discount, when ‘his family’ obviously wants to kick him out of the house? Management obviously sees the sentiment and will not hesitate to throw him out the door, knowing they can get away with it, without an overtly angry fan base.
Of course, Speier, Shields and Yan can close by committee – is Esteban still with the Angels?
BBFan1 - October 14, 2008
sentiment
I think the sentiment at this board is that while Frankie is a great pitcher the fact that he is only going to throw 60 innings a year does not make him worth 15 mill per. We are not average fans, I’m posting before my breakfast right now……. The MAJORITY of Angels fans that I know that attend games would be pretty upset if the Angels “traded” Frankie because of his record breaking year.
MH252525 - October 15, 2008
Yan is just below Weber on the death chart.
Downing Rules - October 16, 2008
re-sign him
he won’t get what he wants, but he’ll take a good offer that the angels give him. i think he’ll be an angel in 2009.
yeswecan - October 14, 2008
Like to resign him, but doubtful
vladtheimpaler - October 15, 2008
Keep him, keep him....
Blicks - October 15, 2008
Anything beyond $10-12M is too much to spend on this position...
…unless the guy is automatic! And Frankie AIN’T AUTOMATIC!
2002 was fun..the novelty of the fastball and slider was Fernando-esque. Unfortunately, w/out that fastball / slider combo he is not what he used to be.
Now the development of that change-up throws a bit of a wrench into things…if he can perfect that pitch it may relieve some of the stress of that motion! Again a crapshoot! If they can sign him in that range posted above @ 4 years or so, I say go for it…otherwise, time to move on! Let’s get the draft pick.
Watching the Rays right now is fun with all of their young players. I enjoyed seeing the growth of Jose ET-adondo. I really want to see Wood and maybe Naps or a pitcher just go crazy next season!
I am weary of the Frankie act/routine! Same thing I always say to the obnoxious Boston fans when they pop off, “Learn how to win and act like you’ve been there before…til then STFU!”
K3YEROUT - October 15, 2008
I guess I can see how you'd want someone who may cause less stress
But don’t make like those 62 saves weren’t the wildest, the funnest ride you’ve had as an Angels’ fan.
BBFan1 - October 15, 2008
Not even close actually...
Riding the wave in 2002 and going to the DS and WS games will always be the “wildest, funnest” times as an Angel fan….with winning the west in 79 and camping in the parking lot for 3 days and 2 nights to buy tix a close 2nd.
Frankie’s 62 saves is not even in the top 5!
K3YEROUT - October 15, 2008
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