I'll try not to become overly sensitive to the snarkiness. It's going to be hard, I'm usually such a delicate flower.
Only kidding.
Nice game today. I used to welcome a trade of Santana for a bat, but now I'm not so sure. These five pitchers are awesome. Of course in the playoffs, we don't need all five, but we've still got to get there.
I have to wonder out loud: Wonder Dog was complaining about Morales' bat speed, bagging on him because he fouled off a fastball to left while hitting lefthanded. Does he look slow to anyone else?
But it feels more like he's just starting late, like it's a weird timing issue, than it does he's lost his speed. But that double-ruled-a-triple was nicely struck; reminded me of what Erstad used to be able to do when he still had any power.
If we can absorb his first awkward 300 ABs & still win the division, that will be a neat trick for the future. His D has already improved a ton.... But I still like Kotch a lot more.
Hud slobbers over AK and Tim Salmon, who ain't exactly lighting up the box scores lately, but he rags on a rook for a late swing, who by the way, got the game winning RBI.
Disagree on liking Kotchman a lot better, if nothing else because CK has to prove he can stay healthy for a year.
Defensively, I think there are a lot of plays Morales can make with his athletic ability that Kotchman can't. Kotchman's defense is tough in a different way, as in he will catch anything in his area.
Is another arm in the bullpen. After Rodriguez and Shields, they're just so thin. The offense is still a little questionable, but they're at a point where it's impossible to fix that with a simple trade or promotion; either Morales and Rivera will produce through the second half or they won't. But another quality reliever would give them the ability to hold down teams in the late innings on back-to-back nights, which is going to be important.
I was figuring when I saw Aybar in the starting lineup today that he was being showcased, and that would be a great trade for the Angels if they could move him for a decent middle reliever. Of course, when he threw that ball away in the first, who knows what it might portend...
Joe Saunders... good way to get his feet wet in the show with lower stress middle relief appearances... It's so hard to trade for good middle relief, it's so rare.
And pinning the season on an untested rookie has worked out in the past. Truth be told, though, even if Saunders came up and was lights-out from the bullpen, they would probably still need another live arm.
he helps.... by low stress, I mean, not the setup or closer role.
I'm talking the 6th and7th inning appearances, where even if he blows a lead, it isn't over. Things like Donnelly's appearance coming in for Jered yesterday. Perfect spot. Up by 6, just get outs. If Donnelly can't get it done, give Saunders a shot. He's got nothing left to prove in AAA.
I don't think we need a deep bullpen, all these guys can go six even on a bad night... On average, these guys will probably go 7, so we need one good arm on occassion to get to Shields and K-Rod... And Saunders is a lefty, which really helps since our entire rotation and setup guy and closer are all righties. Having a lefty in the 6th or 7th can use up a lefty hitter that Shields an K-Rod won't have to worry about.
And I still don't see how Joe Saunders makes us stronger mopping up middle inning relief situations. He is a starter not a reliever. He is better served at the Auto Club pitching every 5th day then coming in low stress situations with the big club.
Go back to the Diaries to the "What I'd do if I was the GM."
How exactly is having a good pitcher in the bullpen wacky?
If he's good, and his minor league stats say he's decidedly good, he'll be fine. Lots of starters today started out relieving.... Ever heard of Papelbon or Liriano? It's not like there's some dividing line that a guy used to starting can't relieve. Some guys have no stamina and can only relieve, but starters can pitch anytime. Mariano Rivera was a starter in the minors. Dennis Eckersley... the list is endless. The Diamond Backs won the World Series with Schilling and Johnson coming in to relieve each other on their off days.
When the only other choice is to have him blowing away hitters in Salt Lake City, there is no choice, he's earned a shot at the show.
but Cupie may be my brother. I could never win an argument with him simply because he wouldn't budge no matter the evidence I had supporting my opinion.
it'll be cool if they bring Saunders and he dominates in middle relief... Or it'd be cool IF Romero or somebody did.... just as long as somebody can hand the ball to Shield without it being a crisis situation
thats one thing. If not, what real value does he have starting in the minors. Put him in the pen, his value would go up signifigantly he could be be slotted right before Shields. Thats just my opinion. He could come up and suck ass and lose all of his confidence and value.
on another post. I don't know how to link to it, though, so here it is (apologies to those who already read this):
Most relievers were starters in the minors -
Frankie was a starter until 2002. So was Shields. Romero was a starter until the Twins moved him into a relief role, with decent success. Gregg, too.
So was Mariano Rivera, Brad Lidge, Jon Papelpon, Billy Wagner, Eric Gagne, and...well you get the idea.
Prior to this year, Bootcheck had an ERA of 10.39 as a starter in 13 innings (3 starts). On the other hand, he had an ERA of 1.69 as a reliever in 16 innings of work (6 appearances). These are a small sample sizes, to be sure, but it doesn't suggest that using him in relief is "misusing" him. This year, other than three disaster appearances after coming back from his hamstring injury, he's pitched well at Salt Lake out of the 'pen, too.
Update: The question really should be: Is Saunders better than the guys we already have (regardless of role)? If he is (and most of the commenters seems to think so), then he needs to be here. Even in a middle/long role, he can be valuable. There have been occasions this season where the starter got knocked out, the Halos came charging back, yet the bullpen allowed the opponents to pile on, putting the game further out of reach. Additionally, in the playoffs last year, our bullpen was EXHAUSTED after the Yankee series. Any quality help is always appreciated in October.
I'm keeping track of games in which Jose throws hit bat during an at bat. I watched most of the game and I don't recall it happening. Can anyone else confirm he didn't throw his bat today?
I just started marking Molina thrown bats with a little curlycue on my Angels calendar after the last game he started(in which he did yet again throw his bat).
I'm new here.
Just figuring this out.Great game today, and a great week for the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Stupid name, but still a great week.
Only two games back, hard to believe.
bc56274 - July 9, 2006
Wekcome bc
don't mind the occassionally snarky comments about your points.johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Thanks, Johnsamo.
I'll try not to become overly sensitive to the snarkiness. It's going to be hard, I'm usually such a delicate flower.Only kidding.
Nice game today. I used to welcome a trade of Santana for a bat, but now I'm not so sure. These five pitchers are awesome. Of course in the playoffs, we don't need all five, but we've still got to get there.
bc56274 - July 9, 2006
Nice way to end the break
The A's seemed primed to lose 8 of ten. Their linup is awful.rjcicc - July 9, 2006
Maybe Santana or Morales
Santana is so consistently putting up these kind of outings we forget how good they are. 7 innings 1 earned run, ehhh... been there done that.Morales only 1 for 4, but his 1 was the game winner.
johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Speaking of Morales
I have to wonder out loud: Wonder Dog was complaining about Morales' bat speed, bagging on him because he fouled off a fastball to left while hitting lefthanded. Does he look slow to anyone else?scareduck - July 9, 2006
Yes
But it feels more like he's just starting late, like it's a weird timing issue, than it does he's lost his speed. But that double-ruled-a-triple was nicely struck; reminded me of what Erstad used to be able to do when he still had any power.If we can absorb his first awkward 300 ABs & still win the division, that will be a neat trick for the future. His D has already improved a ton.... But I still like Kotch a lot more.
mattwelch - July 9, 2006
I didn't get that either
Hud slobbers over AK and Tim Salmon, who ain't exactly lighting up the box scores lately, but he rags on a rook for a late swing, who by the way, got the game winning RBI.johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
yes
Agree, he seems to be just starting late.Disagree on liking Kotchman a lot better, if nothing else because CK has to prove he can stay healthy for a year.
Defensively, I think there are a lot of plays Morales can make with his athletic ability that Kotchman can't. Kotchman's defense is tough in a different way, as in he will catch anything in his area.
Having both is a nice problem to have, for sure.
thewebb - July 9, 2006
Hey Rev
Where does the bandwagon start picking up the peeps?cupie - July 9, 2006
Chavez Ravine
On the right night, it could fill up fast.Rev Halofan - July 9, 2006
Poor Choakland
Not a good way to finish the first half when you're 2nd half starts like this4 at Boston
3 at Baltimore
3 at Toronto
Then Boston in town for 3 more
Toronto in town for 3
Then you head to Anaheim....
One word: ouch
johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
The one thing I'd like to see
Is another arm in the bullpen. After Rodriguez and Shields, they're just so thin. The offense is still a little questionable, but they're at a point where it's impossible to fix that with a simple trade or promotion; either Morales and Rivera will produce through the second half or they won't. But another quality reliever would give them the ability to hold down teams in the late innings on back-to-back nights, which is going to be important.I was figuring when I saw Aybar in the starting lineup today that he was being showcased, and that would be a great trade for the Angels if they could move him for a decent middle reliever. Of course, when he threw that ball away in the first, who knows what it might portend...
Sean @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
obvious answer
Joe Saunders... good way to get his feet wet in the show with lower stress middle relief appearances... It's so hard to trade for good middle relief, it's so rare.johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Right answer
I think Saunders is the right call. Any middle relief a trade would bring won't be all that impressive - and you'd have to give something up for it.gorams77 - July 9, 2006
You're dead on.
I think it's something they will definitly be thinking about. Especially with the Donkey scab sucking large amounts of ass.rjcicc - July 9, 2006
I agree.
Joe Saunders would be a nice fit here. That's how Francisco Liriano got started, pitching out of the bullpen.bc56274 - July 9, 2006
That's one possibility
And pinning the season on an untested rookie has worked out in the past. Truth be told, though, even if Saunders came up and was lights-out from the bullpen, they would probably still need another live arm.Sean @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Nice game
Listened to the whole thing at the beach today. Now my skin is a nice shade of panther red.And what's even better than Oakland heading toward the better east teams, the Angels get to play shitty Tampa Bay. I can smell 1st place.
Hutch (someone took my name) - July 9, 2006
Tampa is no joke
Especially when Kazmir is on the mound. Kaz has no hitter stuff. My guess is he goes up against Lackey. That'll be a show.And when Crawford's rolling, he can win a game on his own.
johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Nevertheless
I would much rather go up against TB, Cleveland, and 4 with KC than Boston, Baltimore and Toronto.Hutch (someone took my name) - July 9, 2006
Oh yeah
I'm just saying Tampa isn't going to roll over. The Angels have to keep sharp and not think they can sleepwalk this series and win it.johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Exactly how does Joe Saunders
Make our bullpen stronger with him pitching in low stress middle relief appearances?cupie - July 9, 2006
If he's a good pitcher
he helps.... by low stress, I mean, not the setup or closer role.I'm talking the 6th and7th inning appearances, where even if he blows a lead, it isn't over. Things like Donnelly's appearance coming in for Jered yesterday. Perfect spot. Up by 6, just get outs. If Donnelly can't get it done, give Saunders a shot. He's got nothing left to prove in AAA.
johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Plus, with out starting 5
I don't think we need a deep bullpen, all these guys can go six even on a bad night... On average, these guys will probably go 7, so we need one good arm on occassion to get to Shields and K-Rod... And Saunders is a lefty, which really helps since our entire rotation and setup guy and closer are all righties. Having a lefty in the 6th or 7th can use up a lefty hitter that Shields an K-Rod won't have to worry about.johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Because his name is
JOE SAUNDERS ...and not BRENDAN DONNELLY nor is it KEVIN GREGG nor is it JC ROMERO...
Rev Halofan - July 9, 2006
Exactly
Use the bums on the rare event that one of starting 5 gets rocked early.Although I've heard Donnelly is hurt. He used to be nearly as good as Shields, so maybe he needs DL time or something.
johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Yes I get it...
And I still don't see how Joe Saunders makes us stronger mopping up middle inning relief situations. He is a starter not a reliever. He is better served at the Auto Club pitching every 5th day then coming in low stress situations with the big club.Go back to the Diaries to the "What I'd do if I was the GM."
cupie - July 9, 2006
experience
Come September he'll be battle tested.rjcicc - July 9, 2006
I guess I am in the minority...
But this makes no sense.Battle tested, so when the playoffs come and we are down 6 runs in the 5th we can bring him in?
Wacky!
cupie - July 9, 2006
A good pitcher is a good pitcher
How exactly is having a good pitcher in the bullpen wacky?If he's good, and his minor league stats say he's decidedly good, he'll be fine. Lots of starters today started out relieving.... Ever heard of Papelbon or Liriano? It's not like there's some dividing line that a guy used to starting can't relieve. Some guys have no stamina and can only relieve, but starters can pitch anytime. Mariano Rivera was a starter in the minors. Dennis Eckersley... the list is endless. The Diamond Backs won the World Series with Schilling and Johnson coming in to relieve each other on their off days.
When the only other choice is to have him blowing away hitters in Salt Lake City, there is no choice, he's earned a shot at the show.
johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
Thanks for the history lesson...
You forgot, Gagne.And you are still wrong.
cupie - July 9, 2006
Pick one Lefty for the Stretch out of the Pen
ROMEROor
SAUNDERS
We are all wathing you, cupie...
Rev Halofan - July 9, 2006
Just a guess
but Cupie may be my brother. I could never win an argument with him simply because he wouldn't budge no matter the evidence I had supporting my opinion.johnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
That would mean
Chompo is your brother too, and he would just kick his brother's ass if he were proven wrong!Rev Halofan - July 9, 2006
Well...
it'll be cool if they bring Saunders and he dominates in middle relief... Or it'd be cool IF Romero or somebody did.... just as long as somebody can hand the ball to Shield without it being a crisis situationjohnsamo @ Halos Heaven - July 9, 2006
An opinion is not evidence...
I could give you hundred others whom have failed.And Rev. I would take Romero over The Colonel.
Lastly, Chompo would kick a lot of ass, especially if there was a Zima involved.
cupie - July 9, 2006
isn't Gagne
holed up with Doc JR from back surgery?ladybug - July 9, 2006
It's not a Fucking Spelling BEE
-because if it was the Rev and I would both lose.cupie - July 9, 2006
If we package him in a trade
thats one thing. If not, what real value does he have starting in the minors. Put him in the pen, his value would go up signifigantly he could be be slotted right before Shields. Thats just my opinion. He could come up and suck ass and lose all of his confidence and value.rjcicc - July 9, 2006
I answered this already
on another post. I don't know how to link to it, though, so here it is (apologies to those who already read this):Most relievers were starters in the minors -
Frankie was a starter until 2002. So was Shields. Romero was a starter until the Twins moved him into a relief role, with decent success. Gregg, too.
So was Mariano Rivera, Brad Lidge, Jon Papelpon, Billy Wagner, Eric Gagne, and...well you get the idea.
Prior to this year, Bootcheck had an ERA of 10.39 as a starter in 13 innings (3 starts). On the other hand, he had an ERA of 1.69 as a reliever in 16 innings of work (6 appearances). These are a small sample sizes, to be sure, but it doesn't suggest that using him in relief is "misusing" him. This year, other than three disaster appearances after coming back from his hamstring injury, he's pitched well at Salt Lake out of the 'pen, too.
Update: The question really should be: Is Saunders better than the guys we already have (regardless of role)? If he is (and most of the commenters seems to think so), then he needs to be here. Even in a middle/long role, he can be valuable. There have been occasions this season where the starter got knocked out, the Halos came charging back, yet the bullpen allowed the opponents to pile on, putting the game further out of reach. Additionally, in the playoffs last year, our bullpen was EXHAUSTED after the Yankee series. Any quality help is always appreciated in October.
johnnyangel101 - July 9, 2006
Poor Ozzie Guillen
He loads the AS game with his Sox, and now they are worn out the day before by playing a 5 hour (so far) 18 inning (so far) game v Boston.Why any manager wants to wear out his own players by picking them when they could with a rest beats me.
19 inning now...
Trot Nixon 0 for 8 (3k). What is that? A Super Duper Platinum and Kryptonite Sombrero?
UK Halo - July 9, 2006
19 innings later
and the F*ing Oz-girls wonladybug - July 9, 2006
Jose with a homer
I'm keeping track of games in which Jose throws hit bat during an at bat. I watched most of the game and I don't recall it happening. Can anyone else confirm he didn't throw his bat today?Anaheim of Anaheim - July 9, 2006
Actually
I would like to know how many thrown bats he's had this season if someone could find out. Maybe an Angel record?Hutch (someone took my name) - July 9, 2006
I don't know how many total this season.
I just started marking Molina thrown bats with a little curlycue on my Angels calendar after the last game he started(in which he did yet again throw his bat).Anaheim of Anaheim - July 9, 2006
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