Fuck yeah ... hear is some RED MEAT for anyone hungry to taste more than a morsel of trade speculation...
According to Tuesday's L.A. Times the deal between Schuerholz and Stoneman would be Casey Kotchman and Chone Figgins for Adam LaRoche.
No word if an apology for Erstad nailing Estrada at the plate in '05 would be included in the deal.
Also buried in the voluminous coverage of the Dodgers (a perquisite for mentioning baseball offseason in the Eli Geffen Fishwrap) was the deliriously happy news that Stoneman is just saying NO to any requests for pitching.
0 recs | 90 comments
Personally
I'm on record that Casey Kotchman will be a bigtime All Star and am bummed to see him go.Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
I too would be bummed to see Kotch go..
If he does, here's hoping he's more Mark Grace than Will Clark. I'd rather lose Casey than Ervin, especially with Kendry on the horizon.While it's AAAA, LaRoche's .915 OPS would have been 2nd to Vlad, he just turned 27 so he's in the middle of his prime, he's under team control thru 2009, and he hit 32 HR's in less than 500 ABs.
darkangel01 - December 4, 2006
While I Agree
about Kotch, I don't think this is a bad idea. So far, the best we've seen of him isn't really any better than LaRoche has been. They actually seem quite similar, except that LaRoche has done it over more ABs.Plus, maybe this is just one of those situations where Casey just needs a change of scenery to truly flourish.
jjackflash - December 4, 2006
I concur
but having some stability and certainty at 1b would be very nice. LaRoche is a very similar guy to Kotchman so we'd basically be trading Figgins and the potential of Kotchman to lock in a sure thing.akathelorax @ Halos Heaven - December 4, 2006
Last Season
I was SUPER STOKED to see what Casey could do with a full season. During spring taining I was ready to name the guy my new favorite Angel.So yeah... it would suck to not see him flourish w/ the Halos.
Anaheim of Anaheim - December 4, 2006
Concur
Dont like the deal, do not let the Kooch go, he deserves a shot once he comes back and proves he's healthy..He is gonna rake and will be the answer we need at 1b making Morales the trade bait some time towards the end of next yeat... or DH the following year
For me it is really tought I want to see D-mac and the kooch perform to their projections!
P237 - December 5, 2006
Easy There...
Please don't refer to Kotch as Kooch...makes him sound like a fishy playerAngel Hawker - December 5, 2006
THE KOOTCH
Any player missing a year with mono while our team lacked offense is known as the KOOTCHP237 - December 5, 2006
Hahahaha
LOLAngel Hawker - December 5, 2006
interesting.
theres also a report on mlb.com saying the angels are shopping colon?and saunders for chad tracy?
and that it would take shields and santana for a-rod.
i dont know who to believe! Personally, i dont even know what kind of value colon has. unless he has great trade value, id say his potential return is more valuable
ihearhowie2.0 - December 4, 2006
Please say it's True
While I love Bartolo, I think that if we can get rid of him and get a big stick in return, I would do it in a heartbeat. Where the Angels missed their chance was last season after Bart came back from his injury and pitched two good games, that's when they should have traded him.But that's in the past. My worry about Colon is not so much that if he's traded he will become the next Roger Clemmins, but that he will come back and will not near as effective as he was before. If he stays I hope he returns healthy and learns some new pitches to throw, because I think his days of throwing in the 90's for 7 plus innings are done.
Rex DaKine Budler - December 5, 2006
Big stick?
I wouldn't call Chad Tracy a big stick...He could even be a downgrade from in house options.akathelorax @ Halos Heaven - December 5, 2006
Who said he was?
Only thing that was said was Saunders for Tracy, but no one called Tracy a big stick. That said, Tracy is only 26 and could probably improve. If I remember correctly, he's a former top prospect and minor league stud, so his 2005 performance was probably not going to be aberration. I'd still settle for in-house, though.Caseys Kiss of Death - December 5, 2006
Did you read
the post above mine?akathelorax @ Halos Heaven - December 5, 2006
Yes, did you?
all he said was that he hoped it was true that we were shopping Colon if it would get us a big stick in return (and I agree, we could lose Colon and still win anyway, easily)...not that Chad Tracy would be that big stick (the report is Saunders for Tracy, not Colon).Caseys Kiss of Death - December 5, 2006
Quote
"Please say it's TrueWhile I love Bartolo, I think that if we can get rid of him and get a big stick in return, I would do it in a heartbeat. "
Sine he's referring to Tracy...he obviously thinks that Tracy is a big stick.
Now can we move on? Why do you seem to get involved in so many inane back and forth arguments?
akathelorax @ Halos Heaven - December 5, 2006
I dunno
but it only seems to be here, and I don't know why people always fall into it either, but I don't really care that much. It wasn't even an argument, so much as me trying to defend a guy on something that it doesn't seem he said. I'm done with it if you are.Caseys Kiss of Death - December 5, 2006
ALLOW ME TO CLARIFY
AmigosMy post was a response to trading Bartolo. For a Big Stick. Not that Tracy is the big stick, but for ANY big stick.
Rex DaKine Budler - December 5, 2006
No
I have yet to join the ranks of the Stoneman bashers, but I'll be queuing up right quick if this trade happens. I don't know if management has totally soured on Kotchman, but a post-mono Kotchman is better than Adam LaRoche, and cheaper. Figgins is outstanding as a super-sub. If you're trading guys of that caliber, you'd better get something back that's not Adam Freaking LaRoche.squarefootnatlpark - December 4, 2006
if Figgins has peaked
This is asteal for '07 and '08, but missing out on Casey in his prime will hurt...Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
whats wrong with laroche?
32 HR, 90 RBI. Youre talking about this guy like hes the plague. 32 homers is more than like 6/9 of our starting line up last year(thats an exaggeration....but is it that far off?)I think you might have a bit of that angel fan syndrome of overvaluing our own players. I hate to break it to you, but kotchman hasnt done anything to prove himself in the pros(not to say he wont) so he doesnt have stellar value that we can trade Figgins and kotchman for manny ramirez or something.
I think this is a steal if it goes down.
ihearhowie2.0 - December 4, 2006
Schuerholz
I recall his quote about trades:(paraphrasing)
"You want to get something good, but you also want to GIVE something good, that way, everyone wants to trade with you..."
Balance that with Billy Beane swinging his dick in public at Kenny Williams (over the Foulke for Koch trade) and not being able to make a substantive trade since then....
Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
Correct as usual King Friday
This says it all right here. You are never going to get anything by just giving up your spare junk.I say do it. I think Casey will be good in 2008, but we can't wait that long, and Kendry should be mashing in 2008 too.
elricsi - December 5, 2006
if "Friday" is a Mister Rogers reference
it might be a first on this blog ... notify Lady Fairchild...Rev Halofan - December 5, 2006
Why Casey's better
- He's at least 2.5 years younger.
- Has already shown in limited appearances ('05 in particular) that he'll mash given the chance.
- (or 2a.) Showed that he can (likely) do so in the AL, as opposed to AAAA NL.
- Having a season of mono does not mean he's done. Atlanta recognizes this, and while it's better for Kotch to go to an NL team than an AL one (and thus coming back to hurt us later rather than sooner), it would be a terrible, terrible mistake to let him get away this easily.
Now, Chone I have no problem trading for someone like LaRoche. But I'd much rather throw in Saunders or Kendry (and not really Kendry, only if it was a must) than Kotchman.Clutch - December 4, 2006
Saunders > Kotchman
A year ago I never would have entertained such a thought, but I really like Saunders. He's a great competitor with good stuff, and I think he has the makings of a solid pitcher for us. Kotchman's trade value, as has been pointed out, had to take an enormous dive last year. While we can't assume he'll be walking death like last season, we also can't assume he'll just revert to Spring 05 form. A lot of young players have comparable talent, but some have a better mental makeup and, in certain cases, just get luckier than others. It's hard to know what kind of effect not only the illness, but the struggles caused by the illness, had on Kotchman. It's just not the same as if Albert Pujols returned from a mono-ruined season. He's an established star. Kotchman may put added pressure on himself, tense up, not wait for good pitches, feel he has to perform right away ... or he may have developed bad mechanics during the layoff and recovery. I'd trade him for more of a "sure thing" in a second.DChalofan - December 5, 2006
Not the plague, but I'm still pro-CK
I just think that LaRoche translated into A.L. looks like .270 with 25 homers. Not bad, but I believe Kotchman can do .290/20, with a mess of doubles & much more upside than ALR.What we really need is protection for Vlad, and ALR isn't it. I also think Chone has real value, just not as a starter. His value is in his flexibility & ability to cover for guys at, what, 5 positions? I'd keep these two for now over ALR.
I do overvalue home-grown players, admittedly. My brand of fan-dom is about following the guys up from the minors & watching them (hopefully) turn into big leaguers. It's a big part of it to me. So for guys like Kotchman, I'd prefer their make-or-break happen w/ the Halos.
squarefootnatlpark - December 4, 2006
i think you are overvaluing Figgins
Almost every team in baseball history locks a player into a defensive position - save the "BENCH" player - and Figgins' defense has suffered by not developing at one position ... and other teams are not looking for "flexibility" - so what you see as a strength is what other teams see as a weakness.Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
We have to take LaRoche
He's a legacy. (Dad being Dave, for you youngins.)http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/larocda01.shtml
It's fated.
Roger @ Halos Heaven - December 4, 2006
AND ... AND ... AND ...
Dave LaRoche is a TOP 100 ANGEL ! ! ! !Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
Oops. My bad
Sorry 'bout that, Rev.Your link trumps mine.
Roger @ Halos Heaven - December 4, 2006
it is all good dude
now we just need a link to Dave's moustache grooming tips page and we will have the trifectaRev Halofan - December 4, 2006
Oh yeah
I totally grew a moustache, by the way- had it for the last 2 months. It's a classic.Brendo - December 5, 2006
FUCK THIS CRAP
He is a AAAA version of Kotchman who actually has playing time under his belt.Stoneman look to upgrade somewhere else. Given time Kotchman will be a very comparable player.
hauldog - December 4, 2006
Amen to that
Though I still think the GMJ signing royally fucked up any chance at a meaningful offseason.Clutch - December 4, 2006
I am not a fan of GMJ
hauldog - December 4, 2006
No opinion, just a question and an observation...
After the mono' and subsequent Kotchman accusatory comments of Angels physicians, it seems like there's been this undertone of "front office/management disenchantment" with ol' Casey. Anyone know if there's something to this?Also, is this not the Floridian/Georgian trade for, in our case, an OC cat that many here have been touting as Atlanta's modus operandi?
Bilko 420 - December 4, 2006
plausible motivation
yes.Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
Ill take LaRoche!!!!!!!!!
In 5 games Kotchman is hitting .176 in 17ABs with 3H and no extra-base hits nor RBIs!!!!!!Unless he starts hitting (Its easyer in Venesuela than in the MLB so he better start doing something) hes going to go bye bye!!!!!
Plus Kendry is the future at 1B so ill take LaRoche for a year with his 30+ HR.
acuda27 - December 4, 2006
Actually
if this goes down, watch for a healthy, on-pace Colon and Kendry to be the February bait for A-Rod.Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
The best part of this trade is
A Rod would still get to brutalize Colon, and I would actually get to enjoy it on a go forward basis.hauldog - December 4, 2006
I could
see that.wumbug - December 5, 2006
Winter ball stats?
Yeah, 3 for 17, but if he gets 3 hits in his next three ABs, he's batting .300 Kind of a small sample size expecially considering he hasn't played ball since MayAngel Hawker - December 4, 2006
johnsamo?
atomburn - December 4, 2006
wow people are honing in on this guy...
Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
I have nothing against exclamation points
It's the spelling that drives me crazy.ok, the spelling and the exclamation points.
I kid, I kid johnsamo...
atomburn - December 4, 2006
Possibilty
Using LaRoche to get mike gonzalez from PIT to flip in another deal. Both the Red Sox and Yanks are said to be interested in him.hauldog - December 4, 2006
not like stoneman to flip a player
cannot recall his ever doing that, he seems to hone in on what he wants and work with what he's got...Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
How'd the three-way trade of a few years ago work?
Really, I'm curious. :-DClutch - December 4, 2006
I am blanking if there ever was one...
Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
Thought the one involving sending Eck and Guillen
away was three-way.Or I'm a complete idiot.
Clutch - December 4, 2006
Ah, n/m
That was just the "FA shortstop merry-go-round" apparently.Clutch - December 4, 2006
unconnected
no claim here made on your idiocy - they were days apart - Guillen traded for Izturis and Rivera a few days before Eckstein released to make way for Cabrera (in between these deals, the Angels had tried and failed to sign free agent Matt Clement).Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
How many trades has he made?
It is a small sample size. Just kidding.hauldog - December 4, 2006
I think he is up to 21 trades
that averages 3 per year - most of the absurdly small variety...Rev Halofan - December 4, 2006
Shields, OC and Rivera?
For Ramirez? Hmmmm....I would have to think a lot more on that...that would be tough. But, I would rather not have to give up any starting pitching. And, no mention of Wood, Weaver, Santana, Kendrick or Adenhart. Makes me think a trade of some sort is certain...especially if Theo wants to do it by Wednesday.
But, man, Vlad and Manny back to back in the lineup...
No way giving up KRod...I can't believe Theo even asked that. Well, I can, but...you know what I mean.
KPBruin - December 5, 2006
I'd love to have Manny
I've been praying for a trade for over two years now. But I'm not sure this makes as much sense as the LaRoche deal. The question is whether last season was progression by Rivera toward stardom, or whether we should trade him while his value is at its highest level. I suppose we could do both deals, since they do not involve any of the same players. That would mean sending OC, Rivera, Shields, Figgins, and Kotchman for Manny and LaRoche. Izzy would have to love that.DChalofan - December 5, 2006
I would think
that if we traded for Manny we would want to keep OC. Just a thought based off of his past relationship/locker room influence with Manny.But its not going to happen anyway - so no point talking about a Manny trade
gorams77 - December 5, 2006
Tough Question
The Angels need to fill 1B with a consistant hitting player. LaRoche for the last couple of years has proven he would be a good fit. Look at it like this guys: If LaRoche came up through the Angels organization and put these same numbers up in an Angels uniform we would be extremely pleased! Now let's pretend that Kotchman has been healthy the last two years and put up slightly less impressive numbers than LaRoche (which assuming he stayed healthy he would have done), would you trade Kotchman straight up for LaRoche and be freaked out about it???? I doubt it!So the issue isn't LaRoche being a risk. Or that we are giving up on Kotchman who could turn out to be the next Pujols. The question is: is giving up Figgins because of the health questions of Kotchman is too much for LaRoche!!!
How does LaRoche project out vs. a healthy Kotchman ? ? ? Though I would hate to see Kotchman in another uniform kicking ass, so long as LaRoch is hitting a consistant 30+ HR's and getting on base, then I wouldn't be missing Kotchman unless he turns into Pujols.
Rex DaKine Budler - December 5, 2006
Doesn't Look Like This Trade is Going to Happen
The Braves want pitching...of the Scot Shileds and Ervin Santana variety. For those two, I'd rather have Man-Ram, but I'd rather have Ervin and Shields instead of either plater. Check out this article:"The Los Angeles Angels have strong interest in LaRoche, and the Braves might listen if the Angels are willing to part with a package that includes utility man Chone Figgins and a pitcher. However, the Angels consider 23-year-old starter Ervin Santana and top setup man Scot Shields nearly untouchable."
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedition/2006/12/05/sptbraveswinter1205a.html
Angel Hawker - December 5, 2006
So the Atlanta papers
say Figgins and Santana (or Shields), and the L.A. papers say Figgins and Kotchman. Which is it gonna be?Caseys Kiss of Death - December 5, 2006
Hopefully our papers are right
This trade is a good one if it's Kotchman and Figgins for LaRoche. Not good, in my opinion, if it's Figgins and one of our pitchers.DChalofan - December 5, 2006
Sides are CLOSE!
I just heard on XM 175 that the Braves and Angels are close to a deal tha tmay be announced shortly for Adam LaRoche for bullpen help--I hope this doesn't signal the end of Scot Shields as an Angel, but we might here something real soon.Angel Hawker - December 5, 2006
Um wow
That would be a waste of Shields.hauldog - December 5, 2006
Doubt it is Shields
Bye Bye Carrasco?hauldog - December 5, 2006
Can't be....
Shields for LaRoche? That would be shocking. Please, if there is a God, let them mean Carrasco or Donnelly.DChalofan - December 5, 2006
Maybe Donnelly?
I hope so...I love shields and his intro musicAngel Hawker - December 5, 2006
Intro Music
I am usually loaded by the time that happens, what is his intro music?hauldog - December 5, 2006
Shields Intro Music
Is Linkin Park/Jay-Z crawling remixAngel Hawker - December 5, 2006
ugh
if its shields for laroche, worst trade ever.ANewFoundThrice - December 5, 2006
pleaseeeeeee
please let it be figgins and carrasco for laroche...ANewFoundThrice - December 5, 2006
it got turned down
they wanted shields. we said no. Im not sure if its the best idea unless we extend scot's contract for a few more years because 3+ years of laroche helps this team more than 1 of shields.ihearhowie2.0 - December 5, 2006
ever hear of the apostrophe?
...welcome to Halos Heaven, apostrophe optional...Rev Halofan - December 5, 2006
IF THIS THREAD IS NONSENSE
it is because i banned one of our local college's TINGLING geniuses and erased all of his comments.How do you like my Latin now, frat boy?
Rev Halofan - December 6, 2006
Assclown
Care to back your statement up with any numbers or facts?Better yet name a set up guy in the league who is better. One year wonders not accepted. Please do not Justin Douche-erer or whatever his name is.
hauldog - December 5, 2006
I'm a Shields fan: Bigtime!
And I know you said forget the one year wonders but I do think Broxton and Zumaya have insanely bright futures! I'd give away our entire bullpen away for Zumaya w/ the exception of Scotty or K-Rod. Doesn't Zumaya remind anyone of a baby Percy???matt92130 - December 6, 2006
till his arm falls off
Rev Halofan - December 6, 2006
Speaking of arms falling off
Sounds a little like Liriano.matt92130 - December 6, 2006
Name 5 Setup Men
with better arms thans Shields' arm.Phil Lesh doesn't count...
Rev Halofan - December 5, 2006
Johnsamo reborn???
Who's gonna be the tool after you get banned by the Rev?Buy a clue asshole. I think there should be a moratorium on newbies acting like assholes before they've made 5 posts.
I think that "tingle" is your head rammed half way up your own ass.
darkangel01 - December 6, 2006
army of 01
...i never liked that band tool anyway...Rev Halofan - December 6, 2006
Bandwagon?
Buy a clue shit for brains. Downing and Davis? Chili? I've been an Angel fan long before Chili made his mark in SF, let alone Anaheim. You are half right though (probably a first for you) I did jump on the bandwagon. The 1982 bandwagon.You obviously have a really small dick. Otherwise you'd see Rev's lighthearted needle poking for what it was.
Unfortunately, I can't ban you. If I could you'd already be "tingling" back on the NAMBLA boards from whence you came.
darkangel01 - December 6, 2006
DUDE HAD ALL THE WARNING ONE COULD WANT
Rev Halofan - December 6, 2006
Oh and the name
predates the TV show by about 10 years whereas yours probably predates your last trip to Frisco.darkangel01 - December 6, 2006
Complete nonsense
they ignore the fact that he comes in and either gives up the lead or loses.Talk about a false dichotomy.
His starts are always laden with loses [sic]
Since when is Shields a starter?
I think that he is a great pitcher
Yes, obviously.
Higz - December 6, 2006
Good for you
now put your dick back in your pants and stop with the pissing contest. If you can't take light jabs, the internet is not your friend...just like everyone else.Caseys Kiss of Death - December 6, 2006
Inferior foe, eh?
Whatever. At least I can figure out how to click the "reply" button.darkangel01 - December 6, 2006
How do you say
como se dice?Rev Halofan - December 6, 2006
Just like that
I tried to warn the prick.darkangel01 - December 6, 2006
iF THIS THREAD IS NONSENSE
it is because i banned one of our local college's TINGLING geniuses and erased all of his comments.How do you like my Latin now, frat boy?
Rev Halofan - December 6, 2006
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